Is Riverside/Avondale Ready For Mellow Mushroom?

[Captain Zissou]

I wonder what the merchants thoughts are on Parking Permits.  At the meeting at Grace, the owner of Blue Fish stated that his patrons complain that they cannot find parking (which is odd considering he has his own lot).  I would find it hard to believe having permits would help this situation.

I didn't know Blue Fish had that many patrons that parking would be a serious issue. Aside from brunch, it seems to be the "Brick's too crowded, let's go to that blue place" place.

Pshhh- I like reheated Sysco food as much as the next guy, but the Brick is too pricey.  Blue Fish and Biscotti's are the best places on the strip for sure.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Pshhh- I like reheated Sysco food as much as the next guy, but the Brick is too pricey.  Blue Fish and Biscotti's are the best places on the strip for sure.

Except for Mojos and Casbah   

[martybjaguars]

There are a variety of reasonable solutions to this issue, but they all require compromise by one or more parties. There is also a need for certain players to accept accountability for their choices and actions.

I live in the neighborhood, but do not live in the area immediately affected by traffic and noise created by the Shops. I love the neighborhood and choose to live here rather than any other part of town.

I find it disingenuous to claim that Avondale doesn’t already have a parking problem. It is also unrealistic to offer as a solution 50 seat restaurants â€" the economics simply do not work on that scale. The local property owners â€" both residential and commercial â€" deserve to be heard, but the neighborhood as a whole also must be considered.
Whether you like the MM concept is immaterial. We live in a free market society with laws governing private property and its uses. If the owner of the property MM wants to occupy wishes to lease space to MM or any other business then that is the owner’s right, pending any laws that prevent them from doing so. In this case MM is not bared from the area due to zoning or any other laws that I am aware of (I realize that there is an after the fact effort to limit the use but that is simply unreasonable to both MM and the property owner (s)). So if MM has the right to open a restaurant or car wash or pawn shop based upon the applicable laws then how can we deny them their rights? I think that MM has been very open and obliging to the community in their request for feedback and a sincere desire to provide information to the public.

The parking problem in Avondale is here today and needs a resolution. However, this strategy of “I am already here, it’s the next guy’s problem” isn’t going to work. I am shocked at the lack of forward thinking by those who claim to be the most affected parties. I hear nothing of substance from the shop owners or the residents immediately adjacent about the need to solve parking. I only hear MM is evil and they must be stopped. Hyperbole and witch hunts. I am starting to believe that this is an artifice for an anti-MM agenda. I have no idea why all parties wouldn’t seek a resolution to the parking problem for the benefit of all involved and the greater neighborhood.

The argument that MM will bring in a “party” crowd seems duplicitous to me. Surely these people have been into Monty’s or seen the activity outside of the Casbah late at night or even the Brick. I know the response will be something like “we don’t need any more of that type of people than we already have.” So now we are sitting in judgment of who should or shouldn’t be allowed to enjoy our neighborhood? What is the criterion for those activities or people that should be allowed in the neighborhood and who gets to determine the criteria? Should we base the criteria on appearance, their choice of entertainment, the way they dress? How many tattoos, piercings, buttoned down shirts, country club logos, short skirts, high heels or business suits are acceptable?

The claim that the Shops are now suddenly causing a decrease in property values or other gripes about the activities in the Shops by residential property owners are simply hypocritical. Those whose voice seems loudest are those who live adjacent to the Shops. I realize that the economic activity has grown in the Shops over the last few years, but those people bought with full knowledge of the proximity of the Shops to their homes. However, they should not be forced to endure blocked driveways or litter or any other unreasonable inconvenience due to their proximity to the Shops. I would wager that many bought BECAUSE of the proximity of the Shops to their property. These buildings have been there, were there and will be there. Empty or filled, which is preferable or best for the neighborhood? Which will most affect property values negatively?  What I hear these people saying is they want a certain type of economic activity that fits their narrow view of what is good for them. A free market doesn’t work that way.

Conversely the retail property owners are the ones who seem to have no voice. These people bought property as an investment believing their rights were protected and now find their freedom being curtailed and the value of their investment reduced due to the proposed moratorium on the use of their property.

I firmly believe that the economic impact of successful business on other nearby businesses is positive. Success begets success which in turn will only improve the whole. A thriving business environment in the Shops helps all those with a vested interest in Avondale.

I do not understand this “all or nothing” approach that some seem to be taking to growth or use. Whether its MM today or 7-11 tomorrow someone is going to utilize this space and when they do its going to be with the goal of making money and to make money businesses need customers. So any use of the space will increase traffic in our neighborhood. All of which brings us back to the idea that Avondale needs a long term plan to manage traffic and parking.

In my opinion the only realistic solution to the parking problem is to modify Boone Park. It goes largely unused other than the playground area. The remainder of the park between St Johns Avenue and Herschel Street is a creepy and over grown. In my mind a park should have trees, but it should also have sun light and room to throw a ball or have a picnic or fly a kite. Boone Park has none of these things as it is currently configured. Why not solve two problems? Get buy-in from the Shop owners, City and MM to fund a parking lot on the St Johns side of the park and rebuild a new and better playground and bright open area in the remaining 60% of the park? Charge money to park there and use that money to pay back the investors in the short term and to fund the park and other improvements to the Shops  long term. If properly landscaped, buffered and configured it could be a boon (sorry couldn’t resist the pun) to the entire neighborhood and solve the parking dilemma immediately.

I know some will want to protect the “natural” environment, but most of the trees are nothing but scrub pines and this is not how the park was planned originally. The park we have today is largely the result of zero management and nature reclaiming the land. It does not function well and it has no historical significance as configured. I see no other economically viable, historically acceptable solution given the limitations of the local geography than to modify the park. A parking garage simply will not work. Stopping growth is not possible. Tearing down houses to make way for a parking lot is not feasible or good for the neighborhood. So instead of attacking each other and looking for reasons not to adapt, let’s look for a solution that benefits the most people and the neighborhood as a whole and lets be fair and realistic while doing it.

I am not in favor or against MM as a member of the shops. That said I would go there if it were an option. I do believe in property rights, free enterprise and entrepreneurial people.  I also believe in being fair to the property owners, both immediately adjacent to the shops and throughout the neighborhood. Unfortunately, I have friends on both sides of the debate. As someone said earlier it’s no fun when it’s your ox is being gored. However, a few months ago everyone was up in arms that 7-11 was coming in to the Shops, today its MM, tomorrow it’s going to be something else. We cannot block economic evolution so we must adapt to it. Whether it’s a redefinition of Boone Park or a different solution, we must address the extant problem and plan for the future. I would rather work with MM today than face someone much less concerned with the fabric of the neighborhood who wants to impose their will on the Shops regardless of the impact on the neighborhood.

There seems to be much misinformation and confusion about many facets of the current debate. What is or isn’t being proposed, how big, how many seats, etc. I would hope someone would find a way to get the unembellished facts out to the public. Not a single side of the story, but the facts, the whole story. Maybe this responsibility should fall to Jim Love as he in effect represents all parties and the neighborhood.  I am 100% confident that people are reacting to false or misleading information on both sides that is created by ignorance and the “I heard…” or “Sally told Bob…”method of communication. Let’s figure out what the truth is and address that instead of arguing about gossip.

Wow that is the most thought out and rational post that I have seen on either side of this 33 & 1/2 page discussion. I do not think that an entire parking lot is necessary and may not be feasible due to the regulations set out by Mr. Boone. I do think that a little TLC on the park could do wonders for the area. From what I understand, MM has been transparent in every step of the process to this point. The "telephone game", as you so eloquently put it, seems to be coming from the clandestine gatherings that arose shortly after the Town Hall meeting at Grace Church. Thank you for giving this topic a breath of fresh air and coralling the starburst back to the original topic.

[mtraininjax]

noise created by the Shops.

Noise from the shops? I live at Edgewood and Herschel and get more noise from the burning tires at 3 AM, than I ever recall from the shops. Now if by noise you refer to drunkards who puke on the City right of way before they start the cars that burn the rubber on my block, I can see that happening, but they are polluting our area with noise at all levels. These are the same people who run through stop signs at 60 MPH because they are plastered from bar hopping at the local shoppes restaurants and bars.

We were walking back from Bluefish Tuesday night and saw an X5, doing at least 60 come south on Edgewood, in front of the Honorable Jim Love's house, and blow through the stop sign at Riverside on its way to St. Johns, probably in an effort to get to the late night menu at some restaurant. Thanks JSO for patrolling only during the day.

Boone Park is more than just the 3 blocks from St. Johns/Van Wert/Herschel, it does go north of Herschel and has a nice open area for toss and catch, picnic tables and even a number of fantastic tennis courts, and more playground equipment there too, in fact, the 3 blocks and additional 5.5 blocks make it a major park in our area.

Murray Hill had a major park between Dellwood/Day/Green/McDuff, a major park that the family stated they did not want to have anything built on it for the 100 years after they donated it to the city. So what did the City do? They decided it would be a better drainage and retaining pond, not a park, as the family asked it to be, for people to enjoy, nope, a nice large drainage pond.  Thanks Warren Jones!

The owners of the shoppes are my friends and I am all about Capitalism and growing a business. We as neighbors and friends will find a way to co-exist, we did so before when there were few choices in Avondale and we all wished for better times, before the Brick, it was Sterlings (Bluefish) and Biscotti's, then you had Monty's at the other end, now we have so much more and gaining more still.

Avondale had its Phillips Mall moment and the neighborhood said, we will not go quietly into the night and with it have grown and expanded, and re-invented ourselves, just as was needed. I am proud of my neighbors and thankful to live in a progressive and conservative area. We can and will all get along.

Sorry for the longer than normal rant, but inaccuracies drive my drivel!

[PeeJayEss]

We were walking back from Bluefish Tuesday night and saw an X5, doing at least 60 come south on Edgewood, in front of the Honorable Jim Love's house, and blow through the stop sign at Riverside on its way to St. Johns, probably in an effort to get to the late night menu at some restaurant. Thanks JSO for patrolling only during the day.

So your anecdote to demonstrate how drunkards from the many (1-2) bars on St Johns are driving drunk and consistently screeching tires in your street late at night involves a vehicle heading in the direction of the shoppes that you assume was bound for one of the restaurants on the street? Case closed. Or are you just lamenting about the inadequacy of JSO?

[Captain Zissou]

Boone Park is more than just the 3 blocks from St. Johns/Van Wert/Herschel, it does go north of Herschel and has a nice open area for toss and catch, picnic tables and even a number of fantastic tennis courts, and more playground equipment there too, in fact, the 3 blocks and additional 5.5 blocks make it a major park in our area.

I agree, but I have often found that area to be waterlogged or muddy.  Some attention definitely needs to be paid towards the park.  I am not a landscape architect, so i don't want to speak on the subject, but I know it could be better designed and better utilized.

[mtraininjax]

I agree, but I have often found that area to be waterlogged or muddy.

That creek is no wider than Hogan's Creek and the way the landscape is sloped, you get water from both sides. I'd leave it alone, let nature take its course, rather than the City come in and try and improve it, there are already JEA tanks on the south end of Boone Park, and if the City really thought they could do something, it would have been done under Overton's reign.  What muddiness? It has not rained in weeks, I'd say its OK to go there now.

I've lived here since 1999, if I was concerned about screaching tires or drunks throwing up in the right of way, or trash in the median from the inconsiderates (they know who they are), or the dog crap that owners leave in yards, I would have just moved to the Southside where there are so called "rational" families. I'm here for the long haul, but god forbid someone gets killed from the growth, it will all hit the fan. So with growth, comes more responsibilities, and the merchants know that growth comes with a cost, a real one for more police presence.

[Know Growth]

The Shoppes,and indeed "Avondale" have accommodated expanded growth for decades.

There are limits,and "growth" in awareness,outlook and citizen response to the "inevitable" narrative.

30 + page internet threads possibly way behind.

[Know Growth]

I agree, but I have often found that area to be waterlogged or muddy.  Some attention definitely needs to be paid towards the park.  I am not a landscape architect, so i don't want to speak on the subject, but I know it could be better designed and better utilized.

Oh come on now.
The area is a "Park"/not developed because much of the Park it is a wetland storm water flow way,and therefore the pioneers granted "Park" status.Indeed the upland border a wee bit wider than granted nowadays.Pioneer days.
Catch up with the Pioneers.
Herschel street culvert blown out during Debbie or did no one here notice what actuaslly happened?

Any attempts or references  joining Boone Park with MM are simply hilarious and darn effective.
Keep it up!

[Know Growth]

know growth, you literally don't know what you are talking about on this.  Why not return to your theories on how sprawl is good for the environment and the 'coloreds' were bad for miami.

Keyboard double tap

Clean miss

Hilarious.

[Know Growth]

Meanwhile,slogging through the bottomlands,lots going on.

A wee bit of News & Info if one will

Citizens effectively engaged with Applicant,COJ process,monitoring and assessment
with much more on the horizon.

We may possibly see COA ( drawings,images) AUG 1

The 'ol gas station structure gone- moved towards St Johns.

Parking In Rear 

Roof Top Bar   

I'll have another PUD Ale!

[Know Growth]

                     *****   Previously scheduled August 7 LUZ meeting cancelled *****


The Applicant has agreed to defer request to withdraw the PUD until the end of August to allow more time for review/negotiation

Apparently the Applicant has already withdrawn application for Administrative Deviation (Gas Station parking requirement)

[Captain Zissou]

Could anyone with a general understanding of sentence structure please interpret kNOw Growth's ramblings?

[Dog Walker]

Captain, Don't you mean his Delphic utterances? Trying to diagram any of those sentences would leave one cross-eyed.

[funwithteeth]

I like that his edited posts still don't make any sense.