Jacksonville fights to keep fleeing young professionals

[mtraininjax]

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-07-26/in-detroit-urban-flight-in-reverse

Great article on how Detroit is working on solutions in its downtown area, called Midtown. Interesting that Whole Foods decided to invest in a store downtown, only after the area had more than 5,000 housing units occupied.

What was cooler was that he downtown businesses helped subsidize the living downtown. Is there this kind of investment by the downtown businesses here in Jacksonville? Does Blue Cross offer its employees money for renting downtown? Fidelity?

Come on Mr. Mayor, I would love to see you push this on the downtown employers, it would make for great press and go a long way to adding more housing downtown.

[I-10east]

I'm so sick of the 'I didn't want to live here in Jax, but I had no choice, and given an opportunity, blah blah blah"...That is pathetic. Bottom line, you are gonna live where you want to live.

[thelakelander]

Great find, mtraininjax.  I was just up in Detroit last month.  It's amazing what their private sector has accomplished in such a short time.  What they are doing to attract an educated workforce to Midtown and downtown Detroit is something that could be suitable for implementation locally.  It's certainly worth a look.

I-10, I'm one of the souls who chose to come to town for a job but was initially disappointed that I couldn't find the urban environment and desired residential building product for a market rate price I was willing to pay.  Instead of complaining, I co-founded Metro Jacksonville to help educate and build a movement that will lead to the creation of that vibrant urban environment with suitable housing stock at a variety of price points.  I'm still stuck in the Southside but I'm making moves to relocate to a live/work loft in Springfield.

[Jax_Spartan]

What was cooler was that he downtown businesses helped subsidize the living downtown. Is there this kind of investment by the downtown businesses here in Jacksonville? Does Blue Cross offer its employees money for renting downtown? Fidelity?

I think subsidizing to live in downtown would be a great idea if there were a ton of available units. But there really arent enough units available in downtown ( at least in the core) to provide incentive for. The Carling/11E are nearly 100% occupied as of Sept. In addition, The Strand is more than 90% occupied with only about 20 units or so left. There are people that come in everyday to take tours of the ones left at the Strand. San Marco Place seems to also be busy. The annual report for 2011 showed the occupancy rates of apartments being 91% with a steady annual increase since 2007. (Mind that report came out 7 months ago.) I think there needs to be a significant number of units sitting open in order to start thinking about incentives. Maybe 220 Riverside will provide that opportunity. Maybe there should be more incentives instead to start building these apartment complexes downtown.

[thelakelander]

There aren't enough residential units in downtown Detroit either.  They are subsidizing residences in a much larger area.  It would be the same as employers here subsidizing units in nearby neighborhoods like Springfield instead of just the CBD.

Incentives for new construction are worth pondering as well.  In Philly, they encouraged new construction a decade ago through an aggressive tax abatement program.  Another form of encouraging market rate new construction is to invest in LRT or streetcars.  Even during the recession, market rate infill has continued to sprout along many new fixed transit lines across the country.  Investing in fixed rail starter lines tends to be cheaper than giving hundreds of millions for individual projects.  Cities like Detroit and Cincinnati are now investing in new lines themselves as a part of their urban revitalization plans.

[cityimrov]

The main reason why smart and creative young professional are leaving Jacksonville is because for the most part, Jacksonville is delusional in it's thinking that it's a great city when it's not.  Smart young professionals are exactly that, smart.  They can see through the smoke and mirrors that most of Jacksonville tries to put in front of them. 

Yes, you can keep the not so smart and not so creative young professionals here by providing housing and better nightlife amenities but overall, the smart and creative young professionals have an investment in themselves they want to improve upon.  Jacksonville, overall, doesn't want to invest in them so most of them leave.   

Invest in them and they will stay.  Don't invest in them and they will leave.  No, Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Florida is not a company they will happily work for.  That's a company for people who are not so smart and not so creative for obvious reasons.

How do you get smart and creative young people to stay?  That's simple.  Have the rich people and companies in Jacksonville and Ponte Vedra Beach open their wallets and let them use their money.  Let them do whatever they want with that money and don't interfere.  That's how you get smart and creative young people to stay.   

[fsquid]

I'm also amazed by how many established professionals live here but work somewhere else.  The 530 and 630 am flights on Monday are always packed with the same guys and the ones coming back early evening Friday the same.  I guiess fun cheap living makes one live like that

[ChriswUfGator]

I'm also amazed by how many established professionals live here but work somewhere else.  The 530 and 630 am flights on Monday are always packed with the same guys and the ones coming back early evening Friday the same.  I guiess fun cheap living makes one live like that

The reason on that is its reputation as being a good place to raise kids.

[thelakelander]

Their kids must be in private school and they probably don't care about cultural diversity. I actually considered relocating to DC a few years ago, partially because of the raising kids issue.

[cline]

Their kids must be in private school and they probably don't care about cultural diversity. I actually considered relocating to DC a few years ago, partially because of the raising kids issue.

Or they live in SJC.  No way people would live here and commute to another city weekly so they could send their kids to duval public schools.

[Jax_Spartan]

There aren't enough residential units in downtown Detroit either.  They are subsidizing residences in a much larger area.  It would be the same as employers here subsidizing units in nearby neighborhoods like Springfield instead of just the CBD.

Incentives for new construction are worth pondering as well.  In Philly, they encouraged new construction a decade ago through an aggressive tax abatement program.  Another form of encouraging market rate new construction is to invest in LRT or streetcars.  Even during the recession, market rate infill has continued to sprout along many new fixed transit lines across the country.  Investing in fixed rail starter lines tends to be cheaper than giving hundreds of millions for individual projects.  Cities like Detroit and Cincinnati are now investing in new lines themselves as a part of their urban revitalization plans.

Haha. Its funny you mentioned the shortages in Detroit. I recently graduated from a college in Michigan (hence Spartan) in the last decade and have several friends that had to search hard to find an apartment in Midtown Detroit. But do you think giving incentives to nearby neighborhoods, like Springfield, Riverside, Arlington, etc., will provide a strong revitalization to downtown JAX or just help rebuild those neighborhoods instead. Just in my opinion, I think one of the main things that holds downtown Jacksonvile back, is the small population that actually resides in downtown. There is a reason all restaurants are open from 11 - 3 M-F, there is no foot traffic if your were to walk down the streets on Sunday, and there are a good number of just empty parking garages after 5pm. I think by building more apartment complexes  and condos downtown, which from my last post there is obviously a demand for, would help resolve some of these issues. Young people like living in cities like Chicago or NY, because there is a large population of other young people, not too mention a more vibrant nightlife and busy streets. Not only would expanding the population of downtown have an exponential effect of drawing other young people, but restaurants and shops located in downtown would be able to grow (or at least extend their hours past 3 pm). You would think foot traffic can only pick up as well.

[fsquid]

I'm also amazed by how many established professionals live here but work somewhere else.  The 530 and 630 am flights on Monday are always packed with the same guys and the ones coming back early evening Friday the same.  I guiess fun cheap living makes one live like that

The reason on that is its reputation as being a good place to raise kids.

Low cost of living is what many of them mention.  They like being by the ocean too.  You are right though, most I've met on those flights live in SJC.  A couple from Riverside.

[thelakelander]

Jax_Spartan, I believe the lack of connectivity between the surrounding neighborhoods and downtown negatively impacts downtown more than the number of people living within a traditional central business district. In reality, the Northbank has more people living in it now, then it had 60 years ago. The residential population lost took place in adjacent districts like LaVilla, Brooklyn, Cathedral District, Springfield, etc.

Even in Chicago, the Loop is directly impacted by its connectivity with vibrant neighborhoods like Wicker Park and Lakeview. While it would be great to see thousands of residential units in the Northbank, realistically that will take decades and billions to pull off. On the flip end, spend $50 million to provide connectivity between DT and districts like Durkeeville, San Marco, Riverside, etc. and you immediately tie in over 100,000 residents. The synergy between the districts will then naturally drive market rate redevelopment in downtown and the surrounding urban districts.

[Jaxson]

A city's cost of living is great, but it is meaningless if residents do not see any value to making a home there.  If we cut corners with public safety, libraries, school and other services, we undercut our identity as a city with common purposes.  Young professionals do not mind making an expensive trade off when they consider leaving for what they deem to be greener pastures.  We should all take notice when rising professionals would rather risk eating Ramen noodles in an overpriced apartment in ('First tier city name here - e.g. New York) than stay home and enjoy the 'low cost of living.'  I am sure that these other cities are very grateful for our young professionals' flight from Florida...

[Tacachale]

My best friend's dad travels for work (now primarily to Charlotte), but makes his home in Arlington. If I was banking like that I wouldn't be living in Arlington, but his primary reason for living here is two of his kids are here, including one still in high school, and he just really likes Jacksonville. All the kids went to private school.

In San Marco I met two different families where the breadwinner traveled elsewhere for work. One of them had their kid starting Hendricks Elementary, which is a great primary school. The one conversation I had with them they strongly implied they would be sending him to Bolles or Episcopal for hs. This is a fairly common pattern among the well to do in greater Jax. St Johns schools are also the best in the state.