Downtown retail surge brings more investors

[JFman00]

Was in and around downtown while real estate shopping on Sunday and it's still stunning how dead the downtown of a million person MSA can be. I saw more people out on the street during siesta in a 30,000 person Spanish town than Jax's downtown on a Sunday afternoon. My realtor was complaining (before seeing a place in the Churchwell Lofts) that the only place he could find open to eat for lunch was Hooters, and even it wasn't that crowded.

Say that you live at a more affordable location than Bay St, like a Parks at the Cathedral townhouse. The closest food is going to be Winn-Dixie, the next closest thing is a Burger King, and the Burrito Gallery/Indochine is a half mile away. If that's what you'd call a vibrant downtown, I have some Ukranian farmland you might be very interested in.

[ronchamblin]

To be brief, which is difficult for me, a vibrant downtown, that is, between Bay and Beaver, and Julia and Market, seems almost impossible as long as we do not have many small to medium places to rent for low cost, and as long as we have not reached a “threshold” of activity.  With the large number of Bank of America type buildings existing, which alone forbids any vibrancy on the sidewalk, and with the momentum of almost zero activity in the core, the path to vibrancy seems way down the road, that is, if one is to wait for organic growth to begin. 

No business would entertain seriously opening a business in the core at this point because they know the lack of foot traffic would doom them within months, a scenario I’ve seen about ten times on my street in only five years.  The only reason that my operation is surviving in the core is because first, owning my building, I am not at the mercy of a greedy landlord demanding high rents, and second, we are fortunate in having a product that is not offered in abundance in the suburbs.  Therefore, to some degree, people are forced to come into the core to browse our books, especially on Sundays.  Our sales, both in the café and in the bookstore are up over last year by a solid 35 percent, approaching 40 percent.  Our Sundays are becoming quite busy, with Saturdays following. 

The threshold is the problem.  How does it arrive?  Theoretically, if we might introduce a fantasy, a foot traffic threshold could be forced if, by some great effort and ability, a revitalization Czar would distribute simultaneously to “each” of about forty small businesses, about $1,000,000 (to each) for their use in opening an operation in the core area.  These business persons would have to be somewhat experienced so that the money would not be wasted on individuals who had dreams of being in business, but no real experience or ability to realize them. 

The $1,000,000 given to each would allow them to optimize their operation so that success would be assured.  It would help the new core businesses if they were to offer products, and satisfy needs, not well established in the suburbs, such as houses of prostitution , thereby forcing outsiders to enter the city to get the products or services.

Having artificially caused the achievement of a threshold level of activity, the momentum of incoming businesses and residents would be established.  We have seen recently, small centers of vibrancy emerge organically along Park and King, and Park and Stockton, partially as a result of the small to medium rental spaces available there, and the lack of large buildings forcing dead sidewalk areas.

An important key to success in survival in the city core is for new core businesses to offer services or products not available in the outer layers of the city.  For example, the legalization of the drug marijuana in Florida, if it were to occur, which I expect to be the case eventually, will provide a great opportunity to revitalize the downtown core.  This could be accomplished by simply allowing, if possible by legislation, the distribution and selling of the drug only in the city core.  This would force people, at least those using the recreational drug, to visit the core.       

Residents follow vibrancy, adding to the momentum, assuring that activity does not fall below the threshold.  Exceeding the magic threshold assures an organic growth which, unless killed by stupid ordinances or excessive taxes, will continue to draw more businesses and residents.

   

[fsujax]

You should have seen all the ghosts at River Fit Gym last night. People on the deck taking classes, having to wait for weights! I didn't realize ghost liked to workout!

[tufsu1]

You should have seen all the ghosts at River Fit Gym last night. People on the deck taking classes, having to wait for weights! I didn't realize ghost liked to workout!

well there was a zombie walk downtown on Saturday afternoon

[ChriswUfGator]

There are also several multiples more people in the Tinseltown movie theater on the southside on any given Saturday night than there are downtown on Saturday night. That's one movie theater, seats 2,000. And you guys are trying to say that a couple hundred people spread over a downtown in a city of a million people shows there isn't a problem with the policies down there?

I mean, you can try I guess, but your position has already collapsed in such epic failure, not unlike downtown, that I'm not sure what the point is. If you're trying to cheerleader, it's I'll-advised because failing to acknowledge the problem often prevents one from solving it. Ron Chamblin, one of those actual business owners Tufsu loves to tell that they don't know what they're doing, just weighed in above you to confirm everything we've said.

[tufsu1]

There are also several multiples more people in the Tinseltown movie theater on the southside on any given Saturday night than there are downtown on Saturday night. That's one movie theater, seats 2,000.

really...what facts do you have to support this?

and no...Mr. Chamblin didn't agree with everything you said....I agree that downtown has its problems and that many of the policies in place do more harm than good....but to imply, as you have done, that there is NOTHING to do downtown and that NOBODY goes there is false....I think Chamblin's cash register receipts refute that argument completely.

[ChriswUfGator]

Oh really, wise guy, what part did Ron disagree with us on again?

No business would entertain seriously opening a business in the core at this point because they know the lack of foot traffic would doom them within months, a scenario I’ve seen about ten times on my street in only five years. 

Residents follow vibrancy, adding to the momentum, assuring that activity does not fall below the threshold.  Exceeding the magic threshold assures an organic growth which, unless killed by stupid ordinances or excessive taxes, will continue to draw more businesses and residents.

To be brief, which is difficult for me, a vibrant downtown, that is, between Bay and Beaver, and Julia and Market, seems almost impossible as long as we do not have many small to medium places to rent for low cost, and as long as we have not reached a “threshold” of activity. 

Again, this is an actual business owner Downtown, not some pie-in-the-sky planning discussion, giving you his honest observation from the front-row of what's going on down there. But I'm sure you know better than these actual downtown business owners.

[fsujax]

If business is so bad for Ron, then why doesn't he just close up shop, why even bother renovating the building next door to him. I can't imagine him sinking more money into a losing venture.

[cline]

If you want to go to church, there's plenty of that action downtown.

[Bativac]

If business is so bad for Ron, then why doesn't he just close up shop, why even bother renovating the building next door to him. I can't imagine him sinking more money into a losing venture.

First, did you not read his post at all?

Second, I don't think getting snarky at one of the few people gutsy enough to be a Downtown pioneer is really going to help your case that Jacksonville's downtown is alive and well.

[tufsu1]

bativac....I don't believe that fsujax (or myself) are saying that downtown is well...but the only ones being snarky are those who say that nothing is happening downtown....now maybe they don't really believe that and have just chosen their words poorly.

[fsujax]

I am not being snarky, I know Ron, he knows me and I support his business.

[ChriswUfGator]

bativac....I don't believe that fsujax (or myself) are saying that downtown is well...but the only ones being snarky are those who say that nothing is happening downtown....now maybe they don't really believe that and have just chosen their words poorly.

We haven't chosen our words poorly, you've just incorrect in your 6 years' worth of denials and attempts to misdirect any discussion about this topic. Downtown's problems are painfully obvious to everyone, as are their causes.

[PeeJayEss]

Okay guys! We get it that tufsu has been here spreading his evil for 6 years. No need to beat it to death. Arguments besides tufsu is in denial are welcome here, I believe.

Anywho, back to Starbucks! Coffee drinkers, do you typically get your coffee on your way to work, in the morning after a couple hours, in the afternoon to not slip into food coma, after, or all? I ask because my belief is that most people get their coffee (if its just one a day) in the morning before work. If you are commuting into town (as most are), would you be more likely to get it at the beginning or end of your car ride? It would seem to me that people buy coffee close to where they live, rather than close to where they walk (and once they are at work, if they need more, most places have their own or there's a in-house place downstairs). If thats so its more about residents downtown than workers. Same outcome of course, but its a different problem.

Also, anybody go to Jax City Cafe for coffee? They have great breakfast, so I would think the coffee is decent.

Isn't Starbucks coffee really bad from the perspective of someone that enjoys, say, Bold Bean?

Being from super-suburbia chain country in NJ, one thing that has struck me about Jax is the seeming inclination of residents towards non-chains, or at least more local chains. The place is still filled with chains, mind you, but less so than other areas, it seems to me. Or perhaps Riverside is just clouding my judgement.

[Bill Hoff]

I agree that downtown has its problems and that many of the policies in place do more harm than good....but to imply, as you have done, that there is NOTHING to do downtown and that NOBODY goes there is false....I think Chamblin's cash register receipts refute that argument completely.

I don't understand why some people think devaluing the positives and emphasizing the negatives is a good strategy, either.

Downtown is certainly lacking, yes. And it certainly does have more to do than most 1.5x1.5 sq miles (or whatever it is) areas of Jax. It's not a zero sum arguement.