JaxPort Dredging

[cline]

^Who's to say that the dredging might not have a bigger impact than the withdrawals?  We should all wait for the results.  I personally am not sold with the thought that we must  do whatever it takes to increase the prominence of JaxPort- at any and all costs- both monetary and environmental.  But speaking out against increasing JaxPort is basically sacrilege in this city. 

[tufsu1]

Are there any environmental challenges to this project?  Friends of the Manatee?  Society for bottom feeding fish?  Herons Heroes?

I'm sure there will be once the Army Corps report is completed and made public...there is much concern about the effect dredging would have on river life

Is there an ETA on the report? 

that's what the announcement was about...the study will be finishe3d next year instead of 2014

[Ocklawaha]

Are there any environmental challenges to this project?  Friends of the Manatee?  Society for bottom feeding fish?  Herons Heroes?

Where's Faye?

[Ocklawaha]

Going as far as Blount Island shouldn't be a big deal, pushing on to MOL/Hanjin will be more involved, on to Talleyrand involves a much longer channel. Consider too that Jaxport has identified Nichol's Creek as a possible Cruise Terminal. I think that might involve more messing with the wetlands then the EPA or Riverkeeper might be able to stomach.

I agree with TUFSU that Savannah has a huge Achiles Heal, in a channel that is so narrow that is barely over 1,000 feet across.

Whereas:

Those Panamax Ships?

Length
Over all (including protrusions): 950 ft (289.56 m). Exceptions:
Container ship and passenger ship: 965 ft (294.13 m)
Tug-barge combination, rigidly connected: 900 ft (274.32 m) over all
Other non-self-propelled vessels-tug combination: 850 ft (259.08 m) over all

Width (beam)
Width over outer surface of the shell plating: 106 ft (32.31 m). General exception: 107 ft (32.61 m), when draft is less than 37 ft (11.3 m) in tropical fresh water.

Draft
In tropical fresh water 39.5 ft (12.04 m). ACP uses the freshwater Gatun Lake as a reference. The salinity and temperature of water affect its density, and hence how deep a ship will float in the water. When the water level in Lake Gatún is low during an exceptionally dry season the maximum permitted draft may be reduced.

Air draft
190 ft (57.91 m) measured from the waterline to the vessel's highest point; limit also pertains to Balboa harbor. Exception: 205 ft (62.5 m) with passage at low water at Balboa is possible.

But now there is the POST PANAMAX SHIPS and this is what Jacksonville, Savannah, Tampa, or Port Canaveral would have to deal with:


Post Panamax length of 1,200 feet won't fit in Savannah's River, Cocoa's turning basin or Tampa's long, narrow, 43' foot channel. If we go to 45 or 50 feet depth, Tampa could be out of the game too. Currently Port Tampa has 3 container cranes, Port Canaveral has 1 portable crane, Port Everglades has 9, Port Miami has 16 container cranes - 4 are Post Panamax. Jaxport has EXACTLY the same amount of berths and container cranes, as Charleston - 18, but our TEU capacity is 5790 more then Charleston. Jaxport's new intermodal terminal will include 2 new Post Panamax cranes, these will be added to the 6 Post Panamax cranes operating at Dames Point. All in all, I don't think our tardiness is going to be a huge negative, we already have the ability to kick ass.

Then there is the JTA project known as 'The Dames Point Bridge' which has a Clearance below of only 53.34 meters (175 feet)  Meaning a post Panamax ship will have to ride low in the water to clear the bridge, or we'll be paying for a lift! BTW New York is having to raise the height of the bridge blocking their channel. Cost? Over a Billion dollars.

[Charles Hunter]

The 175' vertical clearaince could be a problem here - but at least we have major port facilities seaward of the "choke point".  Tampa Bay's Sunshine Skyway Bridge has the same 175' vertical limit, and it sits across the mouth of the bay.

[tufsu1]

Tampa and port canaveral arent even trying to get in the game....maybe port manatee (OUTSIDE SUNSHINE SKYWAY)

[thelakelander]

Many believe that the post Panama ships will only end up going to roughly three East Coast ports. Two of those will be New York and Norfolk. That leaves Jax to battle it out with Charleston, Savannah, Port Everglades, Miami, etc. We're behind all of these places, in terms of dredging planning, approval and working for funding. Someone is going to spend a ton of money and still get left out of the game. My hope is that we develop an alternative game plan. There's a lot of opportunity out there, even without spending $800 million to dredge.

[downtownjag]

Many believe that the post Panama ships will only end up going to roughly three East Coast ports. Two of those will be New York and Norfolk. That leaves Jax to battle it out with Charleston, Savannah, Port Everglades, Miami, etc. We're behind all of these places, in terms of dredging planning, approval and working for funding. Someone is going to spend a ton of money and still get left out of the game. My hope is that we develop an alternative game plan. There's a lot of opportunity out there, even without spending $800 million to dredge.

Ehhh... I'm not ready to throw in the towel. 

[Jaimen]

....maybe port manatee (OUTSIDE SUNSHINE SKYWAY)

Looks like Port Manatee is north of i-275 (Sunshine Skyway Bridge) as well.

[tufsu1]

....maybe port manatee (OUTSIDE SUNSHINE SKYWAY)

Looks like Port Manatee is north of i-275 (Sunshine Skyway Bridge) as well.

yeah..my bad...there is talk about buiding a new cruise terminal south of the bridge...got them confused

[thelakelander]

Ehhh... I'm not ready to throw in the towel.

Dredging doesn't necessarily mean we win just like not dredging doesn't mean we lose. However, history has proven it's not wise to put all your eggs in the same basket. Thousands of jobs can be created even without spending $800 million to dredge. So hopefully, we're not planning with a post-panamax or bust mentality. Let's hope JAXPORT isn't playing checkers while half the East Coast plays chess.

[mtraininjax]

Containers are not the only solution, go check out the port, go and research Keystone Industries, HQ'd in SW Florida, yet Tallyrand is a huge site for them and they bring in coal and other aggregates. JaxPORT can be a great Agg destination, we can swap containers for Agg with Miami and be in great shape as an offering for growth in Florida and the SE. We don't need to spend a billion dollars to become the largest Agg port in Florida.

Miami has been green-lighted by the Governor for the new Panamax containers, only one so far in the state, so we are already behind Miami.

But speaking out against increasing JaxPort is basically sacrilege in this city.

Not really, speaking out against the US Navy would bring a far worse a wet noodle lashing!