Is Riverside/Avondale Ready For Mellow Mushroom?

[KEGreene1]

So if you have a liquor license you need to worry about parking, but if you do not no problem?  Great, let's put a gigantic Starbucks/Panera at the location where not only will parking be an issue, people will stay there for HOURS working because of the free WIFI.  MM should fence off the entire area and show that the current establishments who are already using their lot for free parking.  If they were SO worried about the parking situation they would have bought the lot earlier.  A parking solution is what needed, not more laws restricting business or creating new jobs.

[tayana42]

Existing laws specify the amount of parking required for a restaurant in the historic district (much less than required in other neighborhoods) and prospective developers should design accordingly.  Simple as that. 

Instead, they ask for huge exceptions, effectively dumping the problem on neighboring businesses and residents. 

Just say "no"; meet the legal requirements.  Period.

[fieldafm]

Existing laws specify the amount of parking required for a restaurant in the historic district (much less than required in other neighborhoods) and prospective developers should design accordingly.  Simple as that. 

Instead, they ask for huge exceptions, effectively dumping the problem on neighboring businesses and residents. 

Just say "no"; meet the legal requirements.  Period.

Existing laws also say that a developer could tear down both buildings, build a structure mirroring the same square footage of the two demolished buildings and flip a bird to the neighborhood by then not being legally required to provide ANY new parking.

So, what you have here is a developer that is trying to work with the neighborhood to build an adaptive re-use project that is contextually sensitive with its surroundings.

In zoning cases, this is exactly the kind of win-win situation you want to happen whereas a developer is willing to do the right thing by developing a great product.  The legal alternatives are written in such a way that could ultimately hurt the fabric of the neighborhood.  Thank goodness there is a developer that is willing to preserve and not destroy.

[Tacachale]

Requesting variances is perfectly legitimate. Especially when it allows you to preserve the buildings and create an interesting product. It's a win-win for the neighborhood.

[JeffreyS]

Existing laws specify the amount of parking required for a restaurant in the historic district (much less than required in other neighborhoods) and prospective developers should design accordingly.  Simple as that. 

Instead, they ask for huge exceptions, effectively dumping the problem on neighboring businesses and residents. 

Just say "no"; meet the legal requirements.  Period.

Re read this thread you clearly aren't familiar with existing laws.

Now granted some are trying to change existing laws to make this project require additional parking but if passed those will be new laws.

[Intuition Ale Works]

Existing laws specify the amount of parking required for a restaurant in the historic district (much less than required in other neighborhoods) and prospective developers should design accordingly.  Simple as that. 

Instead, they ask for huge exceptions, effectively dumping the problem on neighboring businesses and residents. 

Just say "no"; meet the legal requirements.  Period.

Tayana-

Do you realize that most if not all of the restaurants in Riverside/Avondale have received exceptions?

Mellow Mushroom is not asking for an exception.

[mtraininjax]

Just say "no"; meet the legal requirements.  Period.

Say, do you work for the Mayor?

[If_I_Loved_you]

might MM contribute to the problem? Possibly.

Possibly!!?? Absolutely

the historic district wasn't designed for cars to serve as the dominant transportation choice.

The Historic District was hardly designed at all - that's why you have duplexes or larger apartment buildings across the street from very expensive houses. To the extent that transportation was a consideration when the District was built, the car was - and still is! - the primary desired means of transportation. Residents close by may walk to a MM, but folks in Ortega, Murray Hill, East Riverside, Lake Shore, Cedar Hills, and other areas are NOT going to incur the significant expense of a taxi to get there - or anywhere else; and they won't like the idea of a shuttle. Jacksonville is just not like large cities in which public transportation is the norm.

Why should MM take care of the parking problem when the other restaurants or other merchants did not have to do anything? BECAUSE MM came along after the jelly bean jar was full and wants to try to cram another 100 jelly beans into a jar that its predecessors filled up.

Someone observed that this problem won't affect me because my house is too far away. That's right even if MM gets what it wants. But what about when a buyer of West Inn gets the same benefit? And besides, as I walk the neighborhood, I'd like to not be dodging all the cars - moving or parked, and I am sympathetic to the plight of friends on Pine Street who will bear the brunt of the problem.

Why didn't the Avondale Merchants Association pool their money together and buy the old Shell Gas Station themselves?

[WmNussbaum]

Why didn't the Avondale Merchants Association pool their money together and buy the old Shell Gas Station themselves?

According to the Pres. of the Association, some of the merchants cannot even afford to be members of the Association - or say they can't. What a scenario: A rather small parcel of land effectively owned by 20 or 30 different businesses, most of which rent the space where their business is located. Who would be the title holder? The Association? Nah! I would not expect the merchants, whose businesses could fail at the drop of a hat, to contribute to ownership of land that cost $800,000 or so to buy and then a bit more each year to insure, pay taxes on, maintain, etc. Not workable!

[If_I_Loved_you]

Why didn't the Avondale Merchants Association pool their money together and buy the old Shell Gas Station themselves?

According to the Pres. of the Association, some of the merchants cannot even afford to be members of the Association - or say they can't. What a scenario: A rather small parcel of land effectively owned by 20 or 30 different businesses, most of which rent the space where their business is located. Who would be the title holder? The Association? Nah! I would not expect the merchants, whose businesses could fail at the drop of a hat, to contribute to ownership of land that cost $800,000 or so to buy and then a bit more each year to insure, pay taxes on, maintain, etc. Not workable!

Thank You William

[mtraininjax]

Can you imagine 20-30 Chiefs in one meeting? Disaster. Anyone who proposed this has obviously not sat in a meeting with 4 or 5 people who think they are in charge of the meeting, let alone 20-30.

[JeffreyS]

Just say "no"; meet the legal requirements.  Period.

Say, do you work for the Mayor?

Great line. Are you sure a liberal didn't write that one for you?

[BrooklynSouth]

Not sure if this has been addressed, but it is not the case that the bar/restaurants in Avondale are evening businesses and the shoppes are daytime businesses. The restaurants are busy at lunch all week and on the weekends. We had a birthday party for my daughter yesterday at the Florida Creamery, and the parking lots were FULL FULL FULL.

If large restaurants like Mojo 4 are pulling in cars from far away places like Orange Park, then that is the problem. Another giant restaurant like Mellow Mushroom, especially a national chain, will pull in more "outsiders" with cars. These "outsiders" will never take a bus to get here. They see the Shoppes of Avondale as just another Town Center to drive to. If Mellow Mushroom wants to be helpful, they should open in a real dead spot, not crowded little Avondale. What about opening next to the John Gorrie condos?

[MusicMan]

Had I been consulted I would have recommended the building that currently houses Yestarday's, the dive bar at the corner of Dancy and Park  St. It is for sale, large enough, has excellent parking, and is right next to one o the more established and respected restaurants already operating in Avondale, Orsay.

[JeffreyS]

Not sure if this has been addressed, but it is not the case that the bar/restaurants in Avondale are evening businesses and the shoppes are daytime businesses. The restaurants are busy at lunch all week and on the weekends. We had a birthday party for my daughter yesterday at the Florida Creamery, and the parking lots were FULL FULL FULL.

If large restaurants like Mojo 4 are pulling in cars from far away places like Orange Park, then that is the problem. Another giant restaurant like Mellow Mushroom, especially a national chain, will pull in more "outsiders" with cars. These "outsiders" will never take a bus to get here. They see the Shoppes of Avondale as just another Town Center to drive to. If Mellow Mushroom wants to be helpful, they should open in a real dead spot, not crowded little Avondale. What about opening next to the John Gorrie condos?

Orange Park has it's own Mellow Mushroom. 
So with these Full parking lots you ran into I was wondering did anyone have to walk over a block to get to the Party?