Intuition Ale Works looking for second site

[CityLife]

@Stephen, I'm not positive, but think that the EHT building may somehow be tied together with the Park View Property as a Joint Venture between Hionedes and the Park View Group. I looked at the building a couple years ago, so my recollection isn't fresh, but think that may the case. Still an awesome building that is worth looking into.

@Bill, Intuition already stated on the first page that they need shipping/receiving and ruled out The Library.

[CityLife]

@Stephen, I'm not positive, but think that the EHT building may somehow be tied together with the Park View Property as a Joint Venture between Hionedes and the Park View Group. I looked at the building a couple years ago, so my recollection isn't fresh, but think that may the case. Still an awesome building that is worth looking into.

@Bill, Intuition already stated on the first page that they need shipping/receiving and ruled out The Library.

Robert Van Winkel was merely providing parking for anything that happened at the Claude Nolan building.  I think it might be much simpler now that there are no plans to develop the property jointly.

Gotcha. Thanks.

Paging Mr. Clark and Mr. Trendel.

[Kickbackssteve]

How about P.S. #4?  Put the fermenters under a new 30 foot roof where the roof collapsed/burned.

[Noone]

^Love that idea. Is the property still landlocked by the owner? I'll have the P.S.#4!

[ben says]

How about P.S. #4?  Put the fermenters under a new 30 foot roof where the roof collapsed/burned.

+10000

[strider]

One thing everyone talking about Main Street in Springfield is forgetting about is zoning.  This project requires light industrial. This is not a small scale thing like the existing one and they are hoping to become even larger. You could get the brewery in under a PUD I guess, but when the community fights things allowed under the zoning laws, when it fights the things allowed under exceptions, do you really believe that there would not be a fight over this?  Even though the project may win in the end, the bad taste might be enough to stop it anyway.

I would think it might be good to look a bit northward.  Follow Paul Davis Restoration's lead.  This could be the first of many similar ideas (retail, industrial) in the warehouse district.  I can think of four, maybe as many as six possible buildings that would be suitable.  The coolest would offer lots of expansion possibilities though perhaps the most expensive to make work (think how cool to have intuition ale being brewed in the old coca cola building)  Initial purchase prices are actually pretty low and today is a great time to rehab a building as costs are down with labor and material as cheap as it ever has been.  And, of course, it is light industrial all ready.  No issues with the historic district as most of the buildings are just outside of the line.  Easy access to MLK and I95.  As it as been stated that the retail on site sales are secondary, one could put up with the lighter traffic as the word got out and people started thinking going to the warehouse district was cool.

MJ has posted the study and the proposals that have been dreamed of for this warehouse district in the past.  Perhaps this could be the real catalyst to move those ideas forward.

[strider]

Here's one article on the warehouse district, but I haven't found the one that discussed a possible future mixed use area.

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-jul-then-and-now-the-springfield-warehouse-district

And then there is this article:

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-oct-the-riverside-brewing-district-then-and-now

It does seems as if the Springfield warehouse district would be a perfect fit.

Strider, I think if you check, these two properties fall outside of the zoning over lay.

I know that The Pearl (which used to be the old TSI did, which is why it opened there.

By the way, the Pearl is indeed within the Historic District and was and is subject to the guidelines.  There was a fight over it when it opened due to some of the exterior details the owner wanted nd of course, it has been the subject of community discussion several times.

[thelakelander]

Strider, I think if you check, these two properties fall outside of the zoning over lay.

I know that The Pearl (which used to be the old TSI did, which is why it opened there.

The Pearl and the old Chevy dealership at 1st & Main fall within the Springfield zoning overlay:

http://www.coj.net/departments/planning-and-development/docs/community-planning-division/default/springfield-district-map.aspx

Nevertheless, I don't that that really matters.  They'll probably need a PUD at any site not zoned industrial.  Given the problems they've dealt with in Riverside, I'd stick to areas with industrial surroundings and history.  That will make it much easier to do what they want to do without worrying about a crazy neighbor or community organizations slowing their production.  That will also give them more property for getting trucks in and out of the site, while presenting the option of them having land to throw their own events such as food trucks, etc.  I also agree with Strider that the Springfield warehouse district does offer great opportunity, although its a little far off the beaten path (they want to be closer to downtown).  There's a couple of properties there that may work and they are already zoned IL.  If shooting for downtown, their best chance is going to be someplace like LaVilla or near Maxwell House or the Union Terminal warehouse off East Union.

Strider, here is the article you were looking for:



http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-jan-urban-core-vision-plan-to-be-unveiled

Btw, the warehouse district is outside of the official historic district boundaries.  One would have more options with an infill site or partial demo of an existing structure to accommodate the extra heights they may need for the brewhouse.

[Bill Hoff]

@Stephen, I'm not positive, but think that the EHT building may somehow be tied together with the Park View Property as a Joint Venture between Hionedes and the Park View Group. I looked at the building a couple years ago, so my recollection isn't fresh, but think that may the case. Still an awesome building that is worth looking into.

@Bill, Intuition already stated on the first page that they need shipping/receiving and ruled out The Library.

Robert Van Winkel was merely providing parking for anything that happened at the Claude Nolan building.  I think it might be much simpler now that there are no plans to develop the property jointly.

The proposed design of the Supervisor of Elections building at 1st & Orange shows both sites developed. The parkview site would be turned into a small plaza with about half the parking saved, if my memory serves me right.

[JeffreyS]

Near Maxwell House would be great. A Phillip Randolf looks like prime for revitalization.

[thelakelander]

they must have included it since TSI then, the rest of that little area is carved out of the zone.

It's been that way since I've been in Jax.

[CityLife]

I love the Springfield Warehouse district and think there is a ton of potential there, but think Intuition is looking for a more high profile location. Given the potential of Intuition and the void of entertainment options DT, it makes sense to be a little closer to the DT core in my opinion.

A lot of cities have breweries within walking distance of their downtown core or entertainment districts. Having brewery tours at Intuition would significantly add to the vibrancy of DT. I was at a conference in Toronto last fall and Steam Whistle Brewery is located right next to the Convention Center/CN Tower/Arena/Baseball Stadium area. During conference breaks lots of people would go on brewery tours, businesses had their private parties at the brewery,  and it basically became the place to hang out at the conference. Intuition could have a similar effect in Downtown. They would also significantly raise their profile with a prominent location.

Lake nailed all the potential spots and IMO the ideal spot would be somewhere between the sports district and "entertainment district", especially if the convention center is going to move to the old courthouse site.  Unfortunately JSO HQ, Sulzbacher, and the Jail take up most of this area, but there have to be some options. Perhaps even part of the Shipyards site?

Intuition, roughly how large of a lot do you need? Also, do you plan to do brewery tours at the site?

[strider]

they must have included it since TSI then, the rest of that little area is carved out of the zone.

It's been that way since I've been in Jax.

When Ryan and Jason opened it in 2002, the property was exempt from the overlay.  It was the reason that they were allowed to open a bar (which is denied by the overlay) instead of a cafe with a liquor license.

They had looked at a couple of properties within the overlay reach but what they wanted to do wasn't allowed.

So they settled on the old liquor store/bar instead.

Keep in mind that the actual historic district as drawn out on the map for that purpose is smaller than the area the overlay governs.  If you draw out the area encompassed by the overly on the map for the historic district, you will see this. I believe that the overlay effectively requires certain properties to follow the guidelines set forth in the overlay even though they were originally blocked out of the historic district. That may explain some of the issue with the Pearl. Also remember that the Pearl location was a bar in a prior life - there is a chance it had not been closed for a year and a day before TCI got it.

Citylife, while it sounds great to have the brewery downtown, it may come down to costs in the end.  Also remember the need for easy access to a major highway.  That just seems to make the Springfield Warehouse District a valid option. 

Who was the first in the Riverside warehouse area/ King street?  Where they not pioneers of sorts?  That begs the question of if one comes to the Springfield Warehouse District, will many more?

[thelakelander]

^BCB was the first.

[jerry cornwell]

Any guesses as to how much space he needs?  It shouldn't be hard to find a good spot.

Doug-
It is actually very challenging to find a spot downtown. I wanted to go there initially before I decided on our current location in Riverside.

I would prefer an empty lot that would allow us to build from scratch plus there are no existing buildings downtown with the ceiling height we need, at least 30 foot clearance. We also need easy access for shipping and receiving which would rule out a cool spot like the downtown library.

Thanks for everyone's continued support and we are looking forward to this new journey.

Intuitions the pioneer of the King street corridor. It would be a bummer to lose ya. The DT challenge could be (if not already) frustrating.
Have you talked with Mac Easton?
Several of your employees are within biking/walking distance and refrain from cars.
All the suggested sites by our posters are beautiful and positive assets to Intuition ale. Its the red tape and politics that will discourage one from taking a business DT.
Many at CoRK talk highly of Intuition. A mosey on over to Intuition is very common.