Why is the concert scene always so dead in Jacksonville?

[Tacachale]

What Jacksonville is missing is a great mid-sized venue for the acts that are too small for the arena, but too large for the theaters/clubs. St. Augustine is just killing it with their 3,500 seat ampitheater.

3,500 seats, eh? Not to hijack the thread, but damn, school four would be a great place for an adaptive reuse into a little amphitheater

Well, they are building an "amphitheater" and water feature adjacent to where the 200 Riverside development is going

I like how you quote "amphitheater". That means it's not good enough, right?

It's a very small amenity beside the water feature, similar to the one at RAM. It won't be comparable to a modern concert amphitheater.

What Jacksonville is missing is a great mid-sized venue for the acts that are too small for the arena, but too large for the theaters/clubs. St. Augustine is just killing it with their 3,500 seat ampitheater.

Some easy, short-term fixes could include making the ground level at the T-U center and Florida Theater into removable seats and maybe new sound systems. Those venues are not that bad.

In fact, they're great, but they're not just concert venues. The Times-Union Center is a performance complex with 3 halls. The setup you describe would not be appropriate for everything that goes on there. Similarly, the Florida Theater hosts a lot of, well, theater and movies; I doubt removable seating would be the answer there. It would be better to let both do what they do well and invest in a dedicated concert venue or venues.

[Anti redneck]

yeah, let's install removable seats at a theater that hosts broadway shows....what a great idea!

I don't know why you have to be sarcastic. I don't think it's a bad idea; no matter what they host.

[Anti redneck]

Where the Ampitheater is just killing it is in the variety department.

Upcoming at the St. Augustine Ampitheater:

The Beach Boys (to be recorded for an upcoming PBS special)
The Fray
Three Doors Down
ZZ Top
Boston
Ringo Starr
Colbie Callait
Gavin Degraw
Wilco
311
Train

In the last two years, they've also had a crazy wide variety of big name acts like Toby Keith, Selena Gomez, Wiz Khalifa, Alison Krauss, Tony Bennett, Duran Duran, Rise Against, The Flaming Lips, Lady Antebellum, O.A.R, Paramore, REO Speedwagon, Pat Benatar, Creed, Aretha Franklin, Alice in Chains, Stone Temple Pilots, Alan Jackson, The Decemberists, and the Counting Crows.

Regardless of personal musical taste, almost all of these tours have skipped over Jacksonville in favor of St. Augustine.

That seems a problem to me.

Would love to see an open air ampitheater downtown somewhere, preferably on the river, or even something like the old Jannus Landing in St. Pete.

We were going to build one.  North Miami/Know Growth and compatriots killed it.

Thanks guys.

Just because tools like them killed it the first time doesn't mean it should remain dead in the water.

[goldy21]

For example, the Florida Theater is amazing, but as an old movie theater with fixed seating, it's just not prime for modern amplified concerts

I've noticed a weird thing at the past few shows I've seen at the Florida Theater.  No one knows how to act during the concert.  Pockets of people stand, pockets of people sit, and both sides argue.  I saw Jeff Tweedy call out the crowd for this.  I saw Tom Waits have to say, "Ok, I'm going to do the talking now".  I saw someone yell "fuck you hooch" to Fleet Foxes, so loud that the singer had to address it. 

I've seen thousands of concerts of all different types of bands, and I've never seen anything like the crowds in Jax at the Florida Theater.  It's like everyone feels that the concert is about them, and any pause in the music is a chance for them to yell their funny/witty/"freebird" comment or whatever.  It almost warrants a full sociological study, cause I can not figure out what is happening.

Wow I had to register just to completely agree with you there.  The Black Crowes last year had to beg the audience to react in any way to the concert.  It was like a funeral in there. 

Also during the Derek Trucks show a couple months ago I was grabbed by the security guard and very rudely told I had to sit down in my seat or be kicked out of the show.  They have no idea whatsoever how to present a rock and roll show or treat their patrons.  I'll NEVER go back. 

Totally agree with everything posted here.  Security was threatening and ejecting people who were standing during Fleet Foxes.  Meanwhile, sitters threw drinks at standers and standers tried to fight sitters.  It was surreal.

Then at the Avett Brothers, who attract a similar crowd, everyone was standing and dancing.  I don't get it.

[control]

On a more positive note, I saw a show at the new Ponte Vedra Concert Hall a few months ago, same management as the St. Augustine Amphitheater.  A bit far from Jax, but an outstanding small venue.

[gatorm]

For example, the Florida Theater is amazing, but as an old movie theater with fixed seating, it's just not prime for modern amplified concerts

I've noticed a weird thing at the past few shows I've seen at the Florida Theater.  No one knows how to act during the concert.  Pockets of people stand, pockets of people sit, and both sides argue.  I saw Jeff Tweedy call out the crowd for this.  I saw Tom Waits have to say, "Ok, I'm going to do the talking now".  I saw someone yell "fuck you hooch" to Fleet Foxes, so loud that the singer had to address it. 

I've seen thousands of concerts of all different types of bands, and I've never seen anything like the crowds in Jax at the Florida Theater.  It's like everyone feels that the concert is about them, and any pause in the music is a chance for them to yell their funny/witty/"freebird" comment or whatever.  It almost warrants a full sociological study, cause I can not figure out what is happening.

Wow I had to register just to completely agree with you there.  The Black Crowes last year had to beg the audience to react in any way to the concert.  It was like a funeral in there. 

Also during the Derek Trucks show a couple months ago I was grabbed by the security guard and very rudely told I had to sit down in my seat or be kicked out of the show.  They have no idea whatsoever how to present a rock and roll show or treat their patrons.  I'll NEVER go back. 

Contrast that to the Tampa Theater, which is set up the exact same way but run much better.

That said, the St. Augustine venue is great.  I'd much rather drive 45 minutes south to see a show there than go right across the river to the Florida Theater.

I think what you're seeing is a transition period. The Florida Theater is starting to pick up younger acts, but then you still have older patrons who are contributors and benefactors and season ticket holders who will go to a show, but not necessarily be big fans of the band/know all the songs/any of the songs.

When I was at Elvis Costello the other night, half were standing and rocking out and half weren't. Maybe they should seat all the season tic holders on one side and have the other half for usual sale...

As far as aggressive security, I think that's a one off thing. He might've been signaling you to sit and you didn't notice while you were getting your blues rock on. The point is, you say you'll never go back but that's a little like cutting off you nose to spite your face. A fan not buying tickets discourages bands from returning and hurts the common cause of getting great shows to Jax, regardless of venue. And there's going to be bands that you'll want to see at FT.

So, other than your run in with the law, how was the show?

Trucks tore it up, but the show itself was not very enjoyable with my ass glued to my seat.  I could have easily gotten as much enjoyment out of sitting on my couch with a concert DVD and $80 back into my pocket.

As far as not buying tickets, I'd hope to drive bands to other venues in the area that don't demand a sterile, silent seated atmosphere .

[Anti redneck]

For example, the Florida Theater is amazing, but as an old movie theater with fixed seating, it's just not prime for modern amplified concerts

I've noticed a weird thing at the past few shows I've seen at the Florida Theater.  No one knows how to act during the concert.  Pockets of people stand, pockets of people sit, and both sides argue.  I saw Jeff Tweedy call out the crowd for this.  I saw Tom Waits have to say, "Ok, I'm going to do the talking now".  I saw someone yell "fuck you hooch" to Fleet Foxes, so loud that the singer had to address it. 

I've seen thousands of concerts of all different types of bands, and I've never seen anything like the crowds in Jax at the Florida Theater.  It's like everyone feels that the concert is about them, and any pause in the music is a chance for them to yell their funny/witty/"freebird" comment or whatever.  It almost warrants a full sociological study, cause I can not figure out what is happening.

Wow I had to register just to completely agree with you there.  The Black Crowes last year had to beg the audience to react in any way to the concert.  It was like a funeral in there. 

Also during the Derek Trucks show a couple months ago I was grabbed by the security guard and very rudely told I had to sit down in my seat or be kicked out of the show.  They have no idea whatsoever how to present a rock and roll show or treat their patrons.  I'll NEVER go back. 

Contrast that to the Tampa Theater, which is set up the exact same way but run much better.

That said, the St. Augustine venue is great.  I'd much rather drive 45 minutes south to see a show there than go right across the river to the Florida Theater.

I think what you're seeing is a transition period. The Florida Theater is starting to pick up younger acts, but then you still have older patrons who are contributors and benefactors and season ticket holders who will go to a show, but not necessarily be big fans of the band/know all the songs/any of the songs.

When I was at Elvis Costello the other night, half were standing and rocking out and half weren't. Maybe they should seat all the season tic holders on one side and have the other half for usual sale...

As far as aggressive security, I think that's a one off thing. He might've been signaling you to sit and you didn't notice while you were getting your blues rock on. The point is, you say you'll never go back but that's a little like cutting off you nose to spite your face. A fan not buying tickets discourages bands from returning and hurts the common cause of getting great shows to Jax, regardless of venue. And there's going to be bands that you'll want to see at FT.

So, other than your run in with the law, how was the show?

Well like a year ago, Primus was at the Florida Theater. Not necessarily a band that you want to sit down and watch, but a band you want to be standing and moving around to. Especially if they play "Jerry Was A Race Car Driver".

[justinthered]

The St Augustine Ampitheater has done great. I don't mind the hour drive to get there. Other than Metro Park (which isn't happening), I don't know where else they would put an ampitheater in downtown.

What is the problem with Metro Park? It's a great location, and they've successfully held a couple all day festivals a few times a year for a while now. I've only been to one show there, but it was really great

[Anti redneck]

The St Augustine Ampitheater has done great. I don't mind the hour drive to get there. Other than Metro Park (which isn't happening), I don't know where else they would put an ampitheater in downtown.

What is the problem with Metro Park? It's a great location, and they've successfully held a couple all day festivals a few times a year for a while now. I've only been to one show there, but it was really great

Bands want the latest and the greatest. The main thing I didn't like about Peyton's plans for Metro Park was that there were no plans for an amphitheater. Throw a nice, state-of-the-art amphitheater in those plans and I would've been all for it.

[tufsu1]

yeah, let's install removable seats at a theater that hosts broadway shows....what a great idea!

I don't know why you have to be sarcastic. I don't think it's a bad idea; no matter what they host.

because people who pay over $100 for upfront seats at broadway shows won't want to sit on folding chairs

[simms3]

Interesting thread.

1) Jacksonville is in a crowded state.  It must compete with 3 larger metros, all 3 of which draw tourists.  It must compete with 2 college towns.

2) Tally/Gainesville probably get much better concerts than Jax.  I know the DJs and groups and bands that roll through, and aside from the Paul McCartneys and Stings and Sheryl Crows, those college towns absolutely obliterate Jax (understandably)

3) FL music scene is truly not quite up to par in general with parts of the south, west and TX.  The scene between Atl, Nashville, Knoxville and western Carolina, the scene between Denver and the west coast, and the scene in TX are just the best music scenes in general.  I'd probably throw NJ in the mix, too, and of course every big name act from Madonna to the Eagles Reunion Tour is going to play in the big cities.

4) That's interesting about the FL Theater, but that is such a performance venue.  I would never go to a rock concert or a DJ show there.  Sitting down in seats at a concert???

5) Every city has multiple venues, some far out.  Jax should be covered between the Arena, Freebird and the Amphitheater for larger concerts, but people need to get off their butt and suck it up and travel to the smaller hole in wall places for live music.


I don't think the scene in Jax is bad at all (although concert lineup is obviously slow for reasons stated).  Does Mofro still play around?  What are the best live music venues now?  Square One? 

[Anti redneck]

yeah, let's install removable seats at a theater that hosts broadway shows....what a great idea!

I don't know why you have to be sarcastic. I don't think it's a bad idea; no matter what they host.

because people who pay over $100 for upfront seats at broadway shows won't want to sit on folding chairs

I'm not talking about folding chairs. I'm talking about rows of seats like you see there now; except you can remove them in favor of a GA floor if you like. Get what I'm saying?

[Gators312]

For example, the Florida Theater is amazing, but as an old movie theater with fixed seating, it's just not prime for modern amplified concerts

I've noticed a weird thing at the past few shows I've seen at the Florida Theater.  No one knows how to act during the concert.  Pockets of people stand, pockets of people sit, and both sides argue.  I saw Jeff Tweedy call out the crowd for this.  I saw Tom Waits have to say, "Ok, I'm going to do the talking now".  I saw someone yell "fuck you hooch" to Fleet Foxes, so loud that the singer had to address it. 

I've seen thousands of concerts of all different types of bands, and I've never seen anything like the crowds in Jax at the Florida Theater.  It's like everyone feels that the concert is about them, and any pause in the music is a chance for them to yell their funny/witty/"freebird" comment or whatever.  It almost warrants a full sociological study, cause I can not figure out what is happening.

Wow I had to register just to completely agree with you there.  The Black Crowes last year had to beg the audience to react in any way to the concert.  It was like a funeral in there. 

Also during the Derek Trucks show a couple months ago I was grabbed by the security guard and very rudely told I had to sit down in my seat or be kicked out of the show.  They have no idea whatsoever how to present a rock and roll show or treat their patrons.  I'll NEVER go back. 

Then at the Avett Brothers, who attract a similar crowd, everyone was standing and dancing.  I don't get it.

Because it is physically impossible to sit through a Avett's show....

And hearing someone scream FREEBIRD, when Ben Folds is playing with the JSO just makes you cringe...

[BridgeTroll]

Apparently more than 11,000 showed up at Metro Park for "Rockville"...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47226689/ns/local_news-jacksonville_fl/t/organizers-oversell-rockville-show/

Hundreds of people were stuck outside Metropolitan Park Sunday afternoon when the Welcome to Rockville music festival was oversold and the park filled to capacity.

Authorities said the park filled up with about 11,000 people inside and it was getting to be dangerous. The fire marshal, with help from the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office and private security, started letting people in one at a time, only after someone else left.

Fans who bought tickets were angry after the show's promoter oversold the show.

"We're standing here waiting, out in the sun; there are no facilities, no water, no one coming out to address the issue that we had," concertgoer Norman Schaeffer said. "I wouldn't have bought tickets if I knew they went over capacity. That's ridiculous."

Right Arm Entertainment, the show's promoter, sent Channel 4 this statement: "Unfortunately, we had some technical problems today. Our ticket count did not match the city's ticket count. Rather than risk a dangerous over capacity, a decision was made to control the flow of entrance," Danny Wimmer said.

Many people left before the gates reopened, but everyone who did wait it out eventually got in.

Early Monday morning, the promoter notified Channel 4 that refunds are available to anyone with tickets who was turned away.

"For those who understandably chose not to wait, refunds will be issued on all unused tickets," Wimmer said.

[CityLife]

"Rockville" probably draws more people from Baker County than it does Downtown, R/A, San Marco, etc. Not really  indicative of the music scene in Jax, but of some of our neighbors.