Is Riverside/Avondale Ready For Mellow Mushroom?

[Tonyinchicago]

You obviously are not a fan of restaurants opening in the area.  I was just trying to figure out if you were basing that opinion on statistical data or not.  So if it safe to assume, the solution you envision is more about capping the number of restaurants/seats that can open than parking?

Correct, by maintaining the overlay that was in place for decades.   As to future additions, the is NO solution.

Because the ground is cursed or something?

Are you certain that you live in Chicago?

Again Stephen, personal attacks.  This is about Avondale and the lack of parking, not where I live.

[thelakelander]

Understood.  Your view is different from RAP's, who was instrumental in getting the current Overlay put together and approved.

Do your research, RAP is opposed to any restaurant going from 87 seats to 250 seats even with the current overlay.   I cannot speak to how they influenced the overlay change prior to this time.

Better yet, read the overlay that your community worked hard to get approved.  Here's a link:

http://www.riversideavondale.org/index.php?id=57

There's nothing in it that limits restaurants to 87 seats and it certainly doesn't cap these places from opening.  While I don't agree with your position, if you want to make it stick, you'll need to change public policy.  Rambling against MM won't amount to a hill of beans as long as the current Riverside/Avondale backed overlay allows these types of uses.

[fieldafm]

Lakelander says:
Actually, they are pretty similar.  3rd Street is a linear commercial strip just like St. Johns.  The blocks on either side of 3rd are residential....just like St. Johns.  The only difference is, is that most of Jax Beach is autocentric.

The block directly behind MM at the beach is commercial save for 2 structures across the street which are rentals of some type. In Avondale houses back directly across the alley from the proposed MM.

You take everything MM says as the gospel. Do you even listen to neighbors? 10 pm to 2 am happy hour isn't neighborhood friendly.

As for the poster who said

My house in Jax Beach fronting 3rd Street had two businesses on either side of me.  Sorry to inform you, the commercial/residential mix of the two areas certainly share many characteristics. 

You do realize Mellow has family nights?  Their business does not resemble a 14 hour long frat party. 

Yet, happy hour specials still have nothing to do with he Overlay. 

[Tonyinchicago]

Understood.  Your view is different from RAP's, who was instrumental in getting the current Overlay put together and approved.

Do your research, RAP is opposed to any restaurant going from 87 seats to 250 seats even with the current overlay.   I cannot speak to how they influenced the overlay change prior to this time.

Better yet, read the overlay that your community worked hard to get approved.  Here's a link:

http://www.riversideavondale.org/index.php?id=57

There's nothing in it that limits restaurants to 87 seats and it certainly doesn't cap these places from opening.  While I don't agree with your position, if you want to make it stick, you'll need to change public policy.  Rambling against MM won't amount to a hill of beans as long as the current Riverside/Avondale backed overlay allows these types of uses.

Easily said by someone who is on the outside looking in.  Again, you absolutely know nothing of this issue.  I do.  I love pizza and surely look forward to MM opening.  Im just opposed to the amount of seating in their plan and, as a property owner, am worried about where all these people are going to park.  I can say with a great amount of certainty that most everyone in the hood agrees with the same concerns.  Can you say the same? 

Stop distorting my argument.  It wont work for you.   

[thelakelander]

^You don't know what I know but what I know is irrelevant to the situation causing you heartburn.  As long as you refuse to understand the zoning facts in regards to these issues, you'll be stressing out for another few decades as your cries fall on deaf ears at city hall.

[fieldafm]

Ockalawa has posted some very pretty pictures of streetcars  I could not agree more that mass transit is the answer.  But before you start digging up streets for rail, the existing system that is already in place (buses) will need to show a significant increase in customers.  This is done by transit trackers.  Someone earlier in this lengthy thread stated that other cities that have this system only saw a 10% increase in ridership.  Hard to believe but the study may be factual.  You MUST have a bridge between customer and product in the form of transit trackers in this day and tech age.  I use mass transit every day here in Chicago and the trackers are essential to being at my stop and not freezing my ass off.  I can time my elevator ride down out of my building and arrive 1/2 a block away without any wait. 

In as much as this is about Avondale, I can say that the customers of the shops and F&B establishments for the most part will not use this form of transportation to go to Avondale.  But, the employees who mostly live in Rside will.  And that can help reduce the demand on spaces.  In a city like Jax, the buses are few and far between.  Those employees would benefit for knowing when the buses arrive and when they will arrive at work.

I don't know about that.  Places like Mellow and the neighborhood in general appeal to young professionals/transit choice riders.  The same young professionals that Jax has had trouble retaining.  However, regarding MM (and other short term projects), better utilization of existing on and off street parking capacity should suffice.  Fixed transit and modification of existing bus services is something that should be promoted now so that it's incrementally implemented by the end of the decade to help deal with long term issues.

That statement is insane.  Do you really want to ague with me about the problems of parking in Avondale now before any other businesses go in.  The parking situation is a nightmare.  I know first hand of the complaints from the customers and residents.  You know nothing of this.

Ate dinner twice in the Shoppes this week.  Had no problem finding legal parking (I don't expect to park at the front door of a restaurant any less than I expect to park next to the cash registers at Wal Mart).  On a third night at the Shoppes this week, I took the pictures you see in the article depicting inadequate bike parking and completely underutilized parking supply.  I also biked to the Shoppes this morning for breakfast, finding the lone bike rack already full I decided to bike to Bagel Love instead.   

That's about as first hand experience as you need

[Tonyinchicago]

^You don't know what I know but what I know is irrelevant to the situation causing you heartburn.  As long as you refuse to understand the zoning facts in regards to these issues, you'll be stressing out for another few decades as your cries fall on deaf ears at city hall.

Again, since your not involved, it does not matter.  I will keep you guys posted with the decisions of the relevant partners in this, merchants, property owners, residents, business owners, customers and RAP.  Continue the personal attacks, it does not count for a "hill of beans".

[thelakelander]

I'm just the guy (customer) you want to provide parking for and a resident of the city who pays taxes that goes to help fund your infrastructure (including that recent streetscape project).  That makes me involved.  Also, I don't do personal attacks.  Don't be so sensitive because I don't agree with your viewpoint.

[fieldafm]

Understood.  Your view is different from RAP's, who was instrumental in getting the current Overlay put together and approved.

Do your research, RAP is opposed to any restaurant going from 87 seats to 250 seats even with the current overlay.   I cannot speak to how they influenced the overlay change prior to this time.

Better yet, read the overlay that your community worked hard to get approved.  Here's a link:

http://www.riversideavondale.org/index.php?id=57

There's nothing in it that limits restaurants to 87 seats and it certainly doesn't cap these places from opening.  While I don't agree with your position, if you want to make it stick, you'll need to change public policy.  Rambling against MM won't amount to a hill of beans as long as the current Riverside/Avondale backed overlay allows these types of uses.

Easily said by someone who is on the outside looking in.  Again, you absolutely know nothing of this issue.  I do.  I love pizza and surely look forward to MM opening.  Im just opposed to the amount of seating in their plan and, as a property owner, am worried about where all these people are going to park.  I can say with a great amount of certainty that most everyone in the hood agrees with the same concerns.  Can you say the same? 

Stop distorting my argument.  It wont work for you.

With all due respect, the alternatives to what Mellow is proposing to do would be the exact opposite of what the Overlay seeks to encourage.  This is not a personal attack, but there are significant holes in the code that could be taken advantage of which would result in a horrible product for the neighborhood.  Perhaps you should familiarize yourswlf with the zoning code innits entirity before accusing someone of not knowing what yhey are talking about. 

[Tonyinchicago]

Ockalawa has posted some very pretty pictures of streetcars  I could not agree more that mass transit is the answer.  But before you start digging up streets for rail, the existing system that is already in place (buses) will need to show a significant increase in customers.  This is done by transit trackers.  Someone earlier in this lengthy thread stated that other cities that have this system only saw a 10% increase in ridership.  Hard to believe but the study may be factual.  You MUST have a bridge between customer and product in the form of transit trackers in this day and tech age.  I use mass transit every day here in Chicago and the trackers are essential to being at my stop and not freezing my ass off.  I can time my elevator ride down out of my building and arrive 1/2 a block away without any wait. 

In as much as this is about Avondale, I can say that the customers of the shops and F&B establishments for the most part will not use this form of transportation to go to Avondale.  But, the employees who mostly live in Rside will.  And that can help reduce the demand on spaces.  In a city like Jax, the buses are few and far between.  Those employees would benefit for knowing when the buses arrive and when they will arrive at work.

I don't know about that.  Places like Mellow and the neighborhood in general appeal to young professionals/transit choice riders.  The same young professionals that Jax has had trouble retaining.  However, regarding MM (and other short term projects), better utilization of existing on and off street parking capacity should suffice.  Fixed transit and modification of existing bus services is something that should be promoted now so that it's incrementally implemented by the end of the decade to help deal with long term issues.

That statement is insane.  Do you really want to ague with me about the problems of parking in Avondale now before any other businesses go in.  The parking situation is a nightmare.  I know first hand of the complaints from the customers and residents.  You know nothing of this.

Ate dinner twice in the Shoppes this week.  Had no problem finding legal parking (I don't expect to park at the front door of a restaurant any less than I expect to park next to the cash registers at Wal Mart).  On a third night at the Shoppes this week, I took the pictures you see in the article depicting inadequate bike parking and completely underutilized parking supply.  I also biked to the Shoppes this morning for breakfast, finding the lone bike rack already full I decided to bike to Bagel Love instead.   

That's about as first hand experience as you need

That's now.  What about 6 months from now with 250 seats proposed and the 125 that was withdrawn across the street and Monty's.  Those will surely be back.  Think forward from here my friends.

[Tonyinchicago]

I'm just the guy (customer) you want to provide parking for and a resident of the city who pays taxes that goes to help fund your infrastructure (including that recent streetscape project).  That makes me involved.  Also, I don't do personal attacks.  Don't be so sensitive because I don't agree with your viewpoint.

Im only sensitive because you know not of what you speak.  I do. I have lived it , been there.  Sorry

[thelakelander]

^I'm actually looking forward to seeing more businesses come in. I can't wait to see a walkable commercial strip blossom that's vibrant day and night that doesn't negatively impact the area's quality of life.

No need to apologize to me.  I'm not hurt and plan on getting a good night's sleep tonight and after MM and the next guy opens.

[fieldafm]

Ockalawa has posted some very pretty pictures of streetcars  I could not agree more that mass transit is the answer.  But before you start digging up streets for rail, the existing system that is already in place (buses) will need to show a significant increase in customers.  This is done by transit trackers.  Someone earlier in this lengthy thread stated that other cities that have this system only saw a 10% increase in ridership.  Hard to believe but the study may be factual.  You MUST have a bridge between customer and product in the form of transit trackers in this day and tech age.  I use mass transit every day here in Chicago and the trackers are essential to being at my stop and not freezing my ass off.  I can time my elevator ride down out of my building and arrive 1/2 a block away without any wait. 

In as much as this is about Avondale, I can say that the customers of the shops and F&B establishments for the most part will not use this form of transportation to go to Avondale.  But, the employees who mostly live in Rside will.  And that can help reduce the demand on spaces.  In a city like Jax, the buses are few and far between.  Those employees would benefit for knowing when the buses arrive and when they will arrive at work.

I don't know about that.  Places like Mellow and the neighborhood in general appeal to young professionals/transit choice riders.  The same young professionals that Jax has had trouble retaining.  However, regarding MM (and other short term projects), better utilization of existing on and off street parking capacity should suffice.  Fixed transit and modification of existing bus services is something that should be promoted now so that it's incrementally implemented by the end of the decade to help deal with long term issues.

That statement is insane.  Do you really want to ague with me about the problems of parking in Avondale now before any other businesses go in.  The parking situation is a nightmare.  I know first hand of the complaints from the customers and residents.  You know nothing of this.

Ate dinner twice in the Shoppes this week.  Had no problem finding legal parking (I don't expect to park at the front door of a restaurant any less than I expect to park next to the cash registers at Wal Mart).  On a third night at the Shoppes this week, I took the pictures you see in the article depicting inadequate bike parking and completely underutilized parking supply.  I also biked to the Shoppes this morning for breakfast, finding the lone bike rack already full I decided to bike to Bagel Love instead.   

That's about as first hand experience as you need

That's now.  What about 6 months from now with 250 seats proposed and the 125 that was withdrawn across the street and Monty's.  Those will surely be back.  Think forward from here my friends.

I think my thoughts on the matter regarding better parking management in the short term and viable alternative transportation modes in the long term are about thinking further.  What in your opinion is the way to move forward?

[thelakelander]

Tony is against the RAP backed overlay and wants to limit the amount of seats and number of establishments that can open.

You obviously are not a fan of restaurants opening in the area.  I was just trying to figure out if you were basing that opinion on statistical data or not.  So if it safe to assume, the solution you envision is more about capping the number of restaurants/seats that can open than parking?

Correct, by maintaining the overlay that was in place for decades.   As to future additions, the is NO solution.

[Tonyinchicago]

^I'm actually looking forward to seeing more businesses come in. I can't wait to see a walkable commercial strip blossom that's vibrant day and night that doesn't negatively impact the area's quality of life.

No need to apologize to me.  I'm not hurt and plan on getting a good night's sleep tonight and after MM and the next guy opens.

Dont worry, Im not apologizing to you in any way.   Do you live within 3 block of this area???   Were you at the meeting at Grace church?  Did you listen the all the residents who voiced opposition to this at that meeting?  An issue that impacts their daily lives because they live within three blocks.  Why dont you find out how the neighborhood really feels before YOU form an opinion on an issue that does not affect your daily life.