Is Riverside/Avondale Ready For Mellow Mushroom?

[JeffreyS]

No they should ask to change the rules so that we can get past this notion that Avondale having Oakleaf style parking is feasible. It is not so lets move on to just discussing the alternative transit solutions that can be implemented in Riverside.

[AvonD]

Valentino has gone to the local banks for 1 million in renovations. He has done his homework, is working with Jim Love, the councilman for District 14, they are working with RAP, this is a win-win-win for everyone involved.

I like Bluefish, Brick, Biscottis, Ginjo Sushi, 'town, Mojo's and I will love MM when they get there as well.  I may never see San Marco again. Not much need. This will bring in more money for all the merchants, who were originally skeptical, but Mojo's has proven to bring more people into the shops. It is a win-win-win.

The issue remains - why would a developer, having done his homework, choose to propose a development knowing they will need an exception to make it work?  None of the other restaurants you list appear to have requested an exception.  It is not about restaurant vs retail, it is about who can and should get exceptions to zoning and how those decisions are made, now and in the future.  I have not seen any comment regarding why an exception is appropriate for the developer in this case nor why a smaller conforming project would be so bad?

[mtraininjax]

The issue remains - why would a developer, having done his homework, choose to propose a development knowing they will need an exception to make it work?  None of the other restaurants you list appear to have requested an exception.  It is not about restaurant vs retail, it is about who can and should get exceptions to zoning and how those decisions are made, now and in the future.  I have not seen any comment regarding why an exception is appropriate for the developer in this case nor why a smaller conforming project would be so bad?

If you are asking why one gets one and another does not, look at the green stuff in your wallet. Its all about the money. Fair, hell no, but this development will help everyone who is invested in the Shoppes of Avondale.

If you don't like it, you can always go to Town Center and enjoy.

[mtraininjax]

The reality is that these developments make the neighborhood more walkable, push land value up and return the neighborhood to is original vibrancy.

+1

What these antics on the part of the 'anti' crowd are going to accomplish are far more troublesome.

First they perpetuate further dependency on the car, with no regard whatsoever as to the people that come after their generation.

Our generations version of the Trillion Dollar debt crisis, I like it!

Second they are going to lead to the destruction of the historic stock by forcing more parking spaces than are necessary.

Not proven yet, we will see. There is the empty lot just west of Avondale Gift Boutique that the city used as staging for the Town Center project, why not turn it into parking?

Third they are going to make it such a pain to get a place open in Riverside that the only people who will be willing to afford the fight will be the mega corporate chains.  This present course is a way of destroying any possibility of a locally originated economy.

I read that you think that Avondale will eventually turn into Mandarin with the over population of chain "hell", I don't see that happening. And also remember that behind every chain is a local business person with an investment who pays taxes and money into our local economy. So careful with slinging the chain word around as a bad one. MM is a chain, but John and his family own the rights to this area. Still better pizza, to me, than Papa Johns or Dominos or Al's.

[mtraininjax]

The only people left are the ones that they used such extreme measures to harass and bully.

Is this where we throw a pity party and we cry over life is not fair?

The Kill all Walkable Retail entity was displaced by the destruction of SPAR, and has floated over to Riverside Avondale.

SPAR made their choice to be who they have become. Life is all about choices, RAP made theirs, SPAR made theirs as well. Which one is thriving and which one is continuing to struggle?

[Dashing Dan]

Good God, you would think they were trying to open a strip club the way some of you are acting. It's a Mellow Mushroom. People aren't going to come flocking in from all sides of town to eat there. There's already three other locations throughout the city, it's not exactly an exclusive landmark or some major dining experience.

I agree that yet another pizza restaurant is hardly worth bothering with. 

MM should find a way to fit in, and not ask to change the rules just so that they can make a pile of money for themselves.

huh?

thats a little bizarre, dan. 

What's bizarre about asking them to follow the rules?

[mtraininjax]

actually i like regional chains, but I also like one of a kind restaurants and shops where you can actually meet the owners. I'm trying to get across that the present course will completely bar all but a handful of the small time locals from being able to participate.

Stephen, I agree with you 1 gazillion percent. I can walk in to the Brick and see Steve the owner or his wonderful wife, when there, or visit with Richard at Bluefish and discuss life with Frank there too. My friends, the McAfee's own the barber shop, this is their 2nd location with one in PVB. Carmen is friendly if you see her in Biscotti's, Meghan was great to see at 'town. Deb Fewell is fantastic at Cowford Traders, and you can see the Underwood ownership whenever you walk inside.

If you spend time in this area, you get to know the owners and the managers and you learn that most of the people employed, live in the area. Its great to see the owners of European Street down at Bluefish one night, or when you see Brian Miller and his family eating out at Mojo's. Or when Ben from Intuition shows up for a meal at 'town. All the people we discuss and their places are all eating, living and enjoying the area, I don't see a Petsmart coming in and opening shop there. I don't see McDonalds opening up in Avondale. Perhaps that was the stigma against the 7-11, people did not want a large chain in the shoppes of Avondale. It worked.

[mtraininjax]

Or simply pushed aside.

For the most part, they have been.

[mtraininjax]

You may find a future ten years down the road when a mcdonalds at the corner of St. Johns and Talbot is having free coffee day for the walgreens employees across the street, and the Chipotle is renovating the old Brick Restaurant, if this anti business madness isn't curtailed

I hear what you are saying, but having lived there for 10 years, and having grown up in Mandarin during the 80s, the comparison is apples to oranges. There is no way that Avondale will turn into a Mandarin with chains and car washes on every other block. People are drawn to live there for the stupid building codes and the charm of the old homes. They know they can go to Durbin Creek for frames thrown together with stucco/mud within 90 days, but they choose something that is close to being a century old.

I don't see a big chain being able to survive, not because they don't have the money, the upper management of any chain only sees cookie-cutter buildings. There are none in Avondale, and no cookie-cutter solutions, and chains want easy, 90-degree angles, they won't put up with the drama, again, one reason I think 7-11 bailed.

Anytime you want to come on down and listen to Frank and Richard at Bluefish, amen, come on down, I love their happy hour outside on the patio, and my dog loves it too, she loves her Uncle Frank. He was telling us the other day when the Davis' used to own the Bluefish space, and the dress shop that was the 2nd floor. The layout of Avondale was a wee bit different, but then, as now, it was still a desired place to live. There are a LOT of the Jaxport and government folks who live in the area, and I see them in the shops, just neighbors saying hello to neighbors, outside the fast pace of work.

[simms3]

Tons of great posts/rebuttals.  Everyone's entitled to opinion, but the real obvious statement is that Avondale still has enough parking whereby you can park closer to your destination in Avondale than you can at Saint Johns Town Center on any given day of the week.  Until you literally cannot find parking (and I don't mean you have to park a full block away and walk), then there is a problem that can probably be solved by alternative transportation options (bikes, cabs, streetcar, increased bus service, shuttles, etc).  Avondale is not even at that point yet.  At Christmas in Avondale parking is still like a block or two walk at most, which is shorter than a walk from parking to destination in similar neighborhoods in other cities (because there literally is NO parking).

And taxis are not the answer?  I know the stupid residents in Ortega wouldn'd dare "stoop so low" from their supposed high and mighty positions of influence and wealth to take a cab to the Shops, but certainly all the out of neighborhood visitors who are just looking for a good time in charming Avondale would be happy to cab.  They all carpool already anyway and the only thing stopping them from cabbing vs driving is the fact that there are no cabs in Jax and no push to get to that point where people consider cabs as a transportation option.

And MM is ok food at best, and it is a chain with 3 other locations in town, but it will be a net positive for the area.  MM will do a good job with the renovation/conversion of the gas station, and they are benefiting the district by funding that plaza.

I'm tired of the blatant hypocrisy regarding Avondale.  It's not really that urban, so for all of you worried about parking and overcrowding - are you opposed to densification of Jax or just Avondale?  And why live in Avondale?  Is it for the charm?  Convenience to friends and family?  Small town feel?  Older homes?  Heck if we can extend the Shops down Ingleside over to Park and then expand the Park and King District, and of course have random businesses interspersed throughout, Avondale would really be hopping.  Get some more duplexes and quadplexes and townhomes, maybe a small-footprint mid-rise here and there, a streetcar loop, etc etc.

At present density a streetcar is not really an option imo.  If we want to make a streetcar work, we need to increase housing density and business density.  Everything now is detached SFR and 1-story shops over 2 blocks with parking out front, behind, and all around the block.

[simms3]

Thanks for the aweome history Stephen.  All before my time

[Dashing Dan]

1. Change the name of Roosevelt Mall to Avondale Town Center.
2. Put the pizza place where Harry or CVS used to be.
3. Problem solved!

[fieldafm]

I have not seen any comment regarding why an exception is appropriate for the developer

There were three concepts discussed that are applicable to this specific situation:

How adaptive reuse structures have contributed to quality of life in similar neighborhoods

The expressed goal of the Overlay is: The standards set forth in the subpart were designed to maintain the historical development pattern while encouraging infill and redevelopment that protects, preserves and enhances the unique character of the communities within the Riverside/Avondale Zoning Overlay Area..

All of these examples were infill projects that have contributed to the fabric of the communities they serve.

Parking management practices

Stacked parking is a legitimate way to maximize parking efficiency for the underutilized/hidden parking supply that exists now.  Valet services could be arranged during peak evening hours among the present off street parking facilities.

There's even an Iphone app/game called 'parking dash' that shows you how this arrangement works:



Furthermore, it can be shown that potential overflow parking along Van Wert is vastly underutilized. 


The conepet of a density bonus

Densit bonuses(used in cities like Seattle, Austin, Portland, etc) are a tool used to guide the characteristics of the community in the direction the citizens desire.

A density bonus program can encourage public plazas, LEED buildings, specific transportation projects, improved streetscapes or historic preservation.  This is a tool that can contribute to sustaining a vibrant community where people want to live.

In this case, such a variance can allow this development to expand beyond parking while enhancing the broader context of the neighborhood, namely encouraging alternative transportation(bike storage) and creating a focal point for the neighborhood(a public plaza).  This is the kind of tool that can be used across the neighborhood to further enhance sustainable living conditions(open spaces, connectivity, multi-modal transit).




In summary, a parking management problem exists presently... not a parking supply problem.

Bonus densities are effective tools used in other cities that 'encourage responsible growth' (a direct quote from the Overlay). 

Adaptive reuse projects, such as the ones shown in the article, have served to successfully  'encourage infill and redevelopment that protects, preserves and enhances the unique character of the communities ' (another direct quote from the Overlay). 


I don't stand behind all of the anti-RAP rhetoric going on in this thread.  I am a proud member of RAP.  I think the organization provides an immeasurable benefit to our community and I am especially fond of the many inspiring people I have encountered within the organization.  The issues here all revolve around answering the question 'how do we make our community a better place to live?' and that's a conversation well worth having. 

I steadfastly believe that there are alternatives that need to be explored to make the neighborhood an even better place.  These alternatives are in line with the stated will of the community, a community desire so prevelant that the exact language I am quoting has been made law.   

[fieldafm]

I don't understand how this wouldn't fit with the overlay as it stands? They don't seem to be adding beyond the buildings that are there.

The parking issue is b/c the building is a non-contributing structure:  Otherwise, the number of spaces for retail sales and service establishments and multifamily uses shall be 50% of the required number of spaces pursuant to Section 656.604 and Section 656.604(e) for any type of office use, provided there are no additional parking credits applied under Section 656.607(d) of the Zoning Code.   

If it was knocked down and rebuilt with the same square footage then 'Additionally, zero (0) parking shall be required of new structures when such structures are built to the same or less than the square footage of a non-conforming structure if that structure is being replaced.' which seems counterintuitive to the expressed goal of 'encouraging infill and redevelopment that protects, preserves and enhances the unique character of the communities within the Riverside/Avondale Zoning Overlay Area.'

In the end there are only so many ways this can go, in Avondale as in other parts of the core: knock down buildings for parking lots, artificially restrict businesses and keep buildings shuttered, or think smart and start work on alternative transportation solutions. Bike racks and better utilizing existing parking is a good short term start; public transit will be a good long term solution, but only if we start thinking about it now instead of tying our own hands.

The Overlay also seeks to 'Encourage responsible growth',  'Manage continued development along corridors to harmonize such development with existing historic development patterns and structures', 'Calm traffic throughout the district' and 'consider streetscape on major pedestrian corridors and around core retail areas' .  All of which are being proposed here.

[PeeJayEss]

What parking problem? I go here for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and fourth meal (getting bombed). I have literally never had a problem finding a parking space. There are always spots in front of Edible Arrangements, so absolute worst-case scenario is a 2 block walk to get your lazy butt from your car to your destination. I also highly doubt that anyone has ever parked past Riverside or Pine.

And who cares if people park on the street in front of your house? Did you move a block from a commercial corridor not realizing there were businesses there? And the person talking about beer cans on their lawn on Richmond Street?!!?!? Unless you live on Richmond Street, just about everybody else doesn't know it exists. You can't legally leave a bar with a beer can, so beer cans on your lawn aren't the bars fault. Its the underage kids that live in your neighbors house that are drinking down by the river. Or its me, driving in from a couple blocks away in Riverside, parking ON your lawn, drinking a 30, and throwing the cans at your house. For that I'm sorry, but I'm just outdoorsy.

Seriously, I can walk there easily, bike even easier still and, though I hate myself for driving unnecessarily, I drive down most of the time when I want to hit up the ""Shoppes." There is no parking problem. Mellow Mushroom will be cool. Its basically the only "chain" in the world that would not knock down the gas station.

I live in the neighborhood and I want more like this, because I want my house to go up in value. I hope the neighborhood is overflowing with cars, so that people actually realize the value in fixed transit (Amen, Ocklawaha! blessings and praise be upon him). The guy on Richmond probably isn't worried about that because his house is, I'm just guessing, quite expensive already.