Jacksonville housing prices make the national media (for the wrong reason)

[tufsu1]

Tufsu, I never compared Jax's transit to Chicago, that would be asinine, in fact I said that we are NOT Chicago by no means, and I went on and said not to many US transit systems are on the level of Chicago.

dude...relax...I am agreeing with you here....and was referring to comments made by tonyinchicago

[I-10east]

Tufsu, I never compared Jax's transit to Chicago, that would be asinine, in fact I said that we are NOT Chicago by no means, and I went on and said not to many US transit systems are on the level of Chicago.

dude...relax...I am agreeing with you here....and was referring to comments made by tonyinchicago

My bad.

[ChriswUfGator]

Tufsu, I never compared Jax's transit to Chicago, that would be asinine, in fact I said that we are NOT Chicago by no means, and I went on and said not to many US transit systems are on the level of Chicago.

dude...relax...I am agreeing with you here....and was referring to comments made by tonyinchicago

Now if this isn't a match made in heaven, I dunno what is. When's the ceremony?

[simms3]

I don't have an economics degree, but it seems pretty obvious - if there are a ton of unoccupied properties, prices are too high, right?  If I have a millions widgets to sell at $1 and nobody's buying, I keep lowering my price until the widgets start to move.

If the problem is property owners that are inelastic to the demands of the market (who can afford to sit on empty properties and speculate that some unforeseen upswing in the market will raise the value of their holdings)...  Well, then - they'll either win big when that upswing happens, or they'll be left holding the bag when the property value of the entire city collapses a la Detroit?

See I have heard the opposite from realtors.  I have heard that while 2 years ago supply was off the charts and demand was lacking, nowadays most of that supply has moved and there is a "6 month" supply in the market, which is normal for growth cities, maybe not even enough if Jacksonville were to be in the 2-3% annual growth range again.

Also, there is a total lack of "supply" of waterfront homes, and these are the most desirable homes in the market, but both oceanfront and especially riverfront prices are dropping like flies - still.  Your average Ortega/Avondale/San Marco riverfront home went from $4-6M at the height of the boom to maybe $2M at best now, and you can forget about the biggest of the big selling.  There's a newly built waterfront home in Ortega that my mother originally listed for $3.9M, and it is still unsold and went to the bank - now listed for $1.7M I think.

Jacksonville is either such an odd market or it's in a growth rut.  People really do not have the money anymore, and even the older money in town was going with the "living on credit" flow of the 2000s.

I'm continually baffled - I go home to Avondale and I see nice new cars, young people, awesome new establishments and restaurants that are full, but when it comes to housing the place looks like a friggin dump and these cool, desirable places are still seeing prices coming down!  The John Gorrie may be overpriced for the market, but how much cheaper can it go really?  And how come only 3 have closed?  Such a confusing market - would hate to be a realtor in Jax right now.

[MusicMan]

Quote: "Conservative population that consistently votes incorrectly.  Lack of mass transit.  Searing summer heat.  Thousands of acres of grid planted pine trees. An airport that is in the middle of, well, God knows where due to the military bases.   Need i go from there?  "

Tony, I'll give you the first point but after that..............................

Yeah mass transit sucks but you can buy something affordable in one of the historic neighborhoods and walk to just about everything you need.

More people die of heat in Chicago in the summer than Jacksonville.

Riverside -Avondale, Ortega, San Marco, Springfield and a lot of Mandarin boast the most green, lush neighborhoods you can find anywhere.  The piney woods also put a ton of fresh oxygen into the atmosphere.

I love the airport location: easy access, 20 minutes by car from the heart of downtown. I never hear a plane take off, rarely hear one overhead unless it's from NAS JAX.

P.S. I love Chicago, too.

[Dashing Dan]

I like Chicago but I'd rather live in Jacksonville.  It would cost twice as much to live in a neighborhood like Avondale, and in terms of parking, daily shopping, etc, it wouldn't be nearly as easy to get around up there, even with better taxi and transit service.  Whatever we lack with buses here, we can make up for it with bicycles.

[Bill Hoff]

And the schools are terrible.

I'm curious as to why people believe this.

In 2011, 85% had a satisfactory or higher score (112 of 131). Duval County is rated a "B" overall.

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/article/209476/18/Duval-Schools-Remains-a-B-District-FCATs-Released

[Adam W]

I like Chicago but I'd rather live in Jacksonville.  It would cost twice as much to live in a neighborhood like Avondale, and in terms of parking, daily shopping, etc, it wouldn't be nearly as easy to get around up there, even with better taxi and transit service.  Whatever we lack with buses here, we can make up for it with bicycles.

But I bet the shopping is way better in Chicago. That's one are where Jax has really suffered over the past decade. I know brick and mortar retailers are all feeling the pinch, but it seems like the variety of shops (and the variety of stock on offer) has really dwindled in Jax.

[Tonyinchicago]

If the JTA would provide it's customers a way to know arrival times, there would be a dramatic increase in ridership.  Mass transit is essential for a city's development as the population and suburban sprawl increases.  And where do all those cars park downtown?  And what cost is associated with parking ?  Property values in the Riverside and Avondale area are not helped by all those commuters speeding through our neighborhood trying to get downtown or to SV hospital during rush hours.

[cityimrov]

I don't have an economics degree, but it seems pretty obvious - if there are a ton of unoccupied properties, prices are too high, right?  If I have a millions widgets to sell at $1 and nobody's buying, I keep lowering my price until the widgets start to move.

If the problem is property owners that are inelastic to the demands of the market (who can afford to sit on empty properties and speculate that some unforeseen upswing in the market will raise the value of their holdings)...  Well, then - they'll either win big when that upswing happens, or they'll be left holding the bag when the property value of the entire city collapses a la Detroit?

See I have heard the opposite from realtors.  I have heard that while 2 years ago supply was off the charts and demand was lacking, nowadays most of that supply has moved and there is a "6 month" supply in the market, which is normal for growth cities, maybe not even enough if Jacksonville were to be in the 2-3% annual growth range again.

Also, there is a total lack of "supply" of waterfront homes, and these are the most desirable homes in the market, but both oceanfront and especially riverfront prices are dropping like flies - still.  Your average Ortega/Avondale/San Marco riverfront home went from $4-6M at the height of the boom to maybe $2M at best now, and you can forget about the biggest of the big selling.  There's a newly built waterfront home in Ortega that my mother originally listed for $3.9M, and it is still unsold and went to the bank - now listed for $1.7M I think.

Jacksonville is either such an odd market or it's in a growth rut.  People really do not have the money anymore, and even the older money in town was going with the "living on credit" flow of the 2000s.

I'm continually baffled - I go home to Avondale and I see nice new cars, young people, awesome new establishments and restaurants that are full, but when it comes to housing the place looks like a friggin dump and these cool, desirable places are still seeing prices coming down!  The John Gorrie may be overpriced for the market, but how much cheaper can it go really?  And how come only 3 have closed?  Such a confusing market - would hate to be a realtor in Jax right now.

So basically what your saying is all the rich people who live in Jacksonville are either becoming poor or are fleeing the city in droves?   

[ben says]

I like Chicago but I'd rather live in Jacksonville.  It would cost twice as much to live in a neighborhood like Avondale, and in terms of parking, daily shopping, etc, it wouldn't be nearly as easy to get around up there, even with better taxi and transit service.  Whatever we lack with buses here, we can make up for it with bicycles.

+1!

[tufsu1]

If the JTA would provide it's customers a way to know arrival times, there would be a dramatic increase in ridership. 

do you have any data to prove this point?

I ask because most cities that have implemented this type of technology have seen less than a 10% increase....which, in most cases, matches the ridership increases of systems generally over the last 5 years (implying the technology had minial effect on its own).

[JFman00]

If the JTA would provide it's customers a way to know arrival times, there would be a dramatic increase in ridership. 

do you have any data to prove this point?

I ask because most cities that have implemented this type of technology have seen less than a 10% increase....which, in most cases, matches the ridership increases of systems generally over the last 5 years (implying the technology had minial effect on its own).

A increase but not a dramatic one (comparing routes that with tracking and routes without, in the same system)

http://m.theatlanticcities.com/commute/2012/03/do-real-time-updates-increase-transit-ridership/1413/

[Brian Siebenschuh]

I have heard that while 2 years ago supply was off the charts and demand was lacking, nowadays most of that supply has moved and there is a "6 month" supply in the market, which is normal for growth cities, maybe not even enough if Jacksonville were to be in the 2-3% annual growth range again.

So you're saying Jacksonville's population is increasing at a rate that will fill all vacant homes & condos in six months?  That doesn't seem right...

[Tonyinchicago]

If the JTA would provide it's customers a way to know arrival times, there would be a dramatic increase in ridership. 

do you have any data to prove this point?

I ask because most cities that have implemented this type of technology have seen less than a 10% increase....which, in most cases, matches the ridership increases of systems generally over the last 5 years (implying the technology had minial effect on its own).

10% is not a bad increase.