Bostwick Building To Be Demolished?

[JFman00]

The city is too stupid for words.  What are they going to put on the site, some crappy pocket park?  We all know how Jacksonville does parks - the biggest park system in the country, WITH THE WORST PARKS!  Come on!  I'd rather see little park space and 2-3 GREAT parks than half the county being considered park and NO great parks.  I hate everything the city does.  My hometown is an embarassment, which is why I fight for it as much as I can from 350 miles away and tell nobody I'm from there.

I don't understand how the city earns that distinction looking at a map. Unless you're counting state forests, I see more golf courses than parks. If you are, San Bernardino probably wins for biggest park system since it has Death Valley, Joshua Tree, and the Mojave preserve. With such a great waterfront, Jacksonville deserves a great urban park.

[jason_contentdg]

simms....please don't compare Jacksonville's history on demolition with Atlanta's....your new hometown has demolished and rebuilt itself several times over (given the first time it was done by Sherman).....I would argue that Atlanta showed virtually no respect for its history until very recently.

I think that's his point....sure they've demolished, but historic stock hasn't been demolished and left an empty lot, a parking lot, or been turned into a summer kitchen like the most recent tear downs here in Jacksonville.

[cline]

The city is too stupid for words.  I hate everything the city does.  My hometown is an embarassment, which is why I fight for it as much as I can from 350 miles away and tell nobody I'm from there.

We get it man.  You hate Jax.  It has wronged you in some unfathomable way.  But why waste all of that time writing (way too long) posts pointing out how stupid Jax is?  You live in the fine city of Atlanta now- which is perfect and has no problems and is the embodiment of everything awesome that Jax will never be.  You're "off the sinking ship".  No need to fight for us from 350 miles away if you're too embarrassed to even admit where you're from.  There are still plenty of people here that are not embarrassed to admit they live here and are working hard to make this a better place to live.  But thanks for your deep concern.

[vicupstate]

simms....please don't compare Jacksonville's history on demolition with Atlanta's....your new hometown has demolished and rebuilt itself several times over (given the first time it was done by Sherman).....I would argue that Atlanta showed virtually no respect for its history until very recently.

You might be right, but the point is, they DID have a change in attitude anad policy.  Virtually every other city has too, except Jacksonville.   This occurred primarily in the '80's and '90's.  Jacksonville is still 20 years behind in appreciating history.

Riverside-Avondale is an exception though.  More things get demolished in Springfield in a week or two,  than have been torn down in R-A in 10-20 years.  Wayne woods, RAP, et al have basically taken demolition off the table in most cases there.  The same thing needs to happen in the rest of the core.   

[simms3]

Jacksonville constantly advertises itself as the city with the largest park system in America.  And it has great nature preserves, but it has abysmal urban parks.  Also, Atlanta has rocked at preservation compared to Jax, and so have most other cities.  Granted, most cities had more to begin with, I'd say there are few if any cities that destroyed such a large percentage of their past as Jacksonville.  And to boot, the city hasn't replaced that lost building fabric with anything that has gotten the city anywhere.  In fact, most of what the city has demolished is currently surface parking and weed-filled lots.  This is simply not the case elsewhere, and it's unfortunate.

And also to boot, Jacksonville's whole being revolves around the waterfront, and it had a real history there, a real unique waterfront that for decades allowed the city to exist.  There are obvious reasons as to why the industry moved upshore, but the city never HAD to completely wipe out the very thing that gave it soul, that allowed it to exist, and that gave it its identity.  The Bostwick Building is a final standing reminder of this past.  It should not be allowed to go.

[simms3]

The city is too stupid for words.  I hate everything the city does.  My hometown is an embarassment, which is why I fight for it as much as I can from 350 miles away and tell nobody I'm from there.

We get it man.  You hate Jax.  It has wronged you in some unfathomable way.  But why waste all of that time writing (way too long) posts pointing out how stupid Jax is?  You live in the fine city of Atlanta now- which is perfect and has no problems and is the embodiment of everything awesome that Jax will never be.  You're "off the sinking ship".  No need to fight for us from 350 miles away if you're too embarrassed to even admit where you're from.  There are still plenty of people here that are not embarrassed to admit they live here and are working hard to make this a better place to live.  But thanks for your deep concern.

Thanks.  Real contributor.  If I mentioned any other city, it would be the same with you (actually I do point to plenty of other cities...Atlanta the most BECAUSE I LIVE HERE and am active in seeing what makes this city tick).  I think Jacksonville and its citizens are in no place to reject and refute points made and observations made by outsiders, because so far there is nothing happening on the inside that is leading to real success.  I think big cities like Atlanta actually take cues from smaller cities like Chattanooga, Nashville and Charlotte all the time, and people in the city have no problem learning from those who do something best.

I have offered several ideas to many different things talked about on this forum, and they happen to be successful ideas I see implemented where I live (and other cities, too).  What say you about that?

Folks like Lake are constantly pulling ideas in from other cities.  He spreads the sources around because he travels more than I do, but I'm sure if he were back and forth between one city and Jax, he would pull more ideas from that one city.  Would you have a problem if it were Lake doing this?  I think not.

[vicupstate]

The city is too stupid for words.  What are they going to put on the site, some crappy pocket park?  We all know how Jacksonville does parks - the biggest park system in the country, WITH THE WORST PARKS!  Come on!  I'd rather see little park space and 2-3 GREAT parks than half the county being considered park and NO great parks.  I hate everything the city does.  My hometown is an embarassment, which is why I fight for it as much as I can from 350 miles away and tell nobody I'm from there.

I don't understand how the city earns that distinction looking at a map. Unless you're counting state forests, I see more golf courses than parks. If you are, San Bernardino probably wins for biggest park system since it has Death Valley, Joshua Tree, and the Mojave preserve. With such a great waterfront, Jacksonville deserves a great urban park.

It all based on CITY LIMITS.  Because of consolidation, any conservation or park space within Duval County is counted as park space.  Thanks to the Preservation project, that is a considerable amount of land.

San Bernadino's city limits don't extend to Death Valley, Joshua Tree, etc.

Unfortunately, most of the Jax park space is strictly conservation land that is largely unaccesssible.  Peyton had a great plan to enhance parks county-wide, and increase access to the huge swath of land. But he quickly dropped it when the city council members didn't want to give up their fiefdoms.   

Maybe one day when the city realizes that low taxes and high quality of life don't neccessarily go hand in hand, an effort will be made to pick up where Peyton left off. 

[cline]

Maybe one day when the city realizes that low taxes and high quality of life don't neccessarily go hand in hand

Bingo.  You can't necessarily have it both ways.  It takes money to take care of what we've got.  Unfortunately, there is a large contingent of the population here that don't see it that way and a City Council with not much of a spine.

Of course you also have a large contingent of the population of Jax that fails to see the value of downtown and doesn't give a damn when historic buildings are demolished.

[JFman00]

It all based on CITY LIMITS.  Because of consolidation, any conservation or park space within Duval County is counted as park space.  Thanks to the Preservation project, that is a considerable amount of land.

San Bernadino's city limits don't extend to Death Valley, Joshua Tree, etc.

Unfortunately, most of the Jax park space is strictly conservation land that is largely unaccesssible.  Peyton had a great plan to enhance parks county-wide, and increase access to the huge swath of land. But he quickly dropped it when the city council members didn't want to give up their fiefdoms.   

Maybe one day when the city realizes that low taxes and high quality of life don't neccessarily go hand in hand, an effort will be made to pick up where Peyton left off. 

That's what I was getting at. Consolidation + claiming what is essentially wilderness does not a great park system make. I'm curious if any studies have been done on the effect turning the old city hall and courthouse into green space would have on land value (and accordingly taxes). I bet the Berkman and Churchwell Lofts would sell much better if they were adjacent to a nice waterfront park (if Hemming Plaza is an urban park then my patio is an arboretum).

Instead of trying to squeeze a diamond out of a lump of coal, Hemming Plaza might work better as... a plaza



Sorry for getting off-topic

[ben says]

It looks like the Bostwick Building is about to come down, possibly next week.

I got an email that Code Enforcement has told the owners that they will start incurring the $100/day fine sometime in the next week or two.  It’s ashame they let it rot.  I had a client who was interested in purchasing it back in 2007 and I had the opportunity to do a site visit:

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=1050.0

Evidently, they got an offer 4 years ago at $960k with the building was up in the 1.5mm range and turned it down.  They didn’t get any sniffs on the building in it’s current decrepit shape at $360k.

Is this still for sale?

[thelakelander]

Folks like Lake are constantly pulling ideas in from other cities.  He spreads the sources around because he travels more than I do, but I'm sure if he were back and forth between one city and Jax, he would pull more ideas from that one city.  Would you have a problem if it were Lake doing this?  I think not.

With this said, I value simms3 contributions.  Even though we don't agree on all the issues and comparisons, his input has led me to explore Atlanta more on my visits up there.  Two weeks ago I spent some time in Piedmont Park, Decatur, Glenwood Park, East Atlanta, and Inman Park.  There's been a ton of change, for the better, in these places over the last decade.  I can only dream that we can get to the point where we are allowed to be just as innovative and creative locally. 

These guys are also dead on about the parks.  Can we get just one decent urban park that's just as vibrant as a place like Atlanta's Piedmont, New Orleans' City Park, Orlando's Lake Eola, St. Louis' Forest Park, Detroit's Belle Isle, etc?  I look at a similar space like Hogans Creek and can only shake my head and dream about what it must have looked like 70 years ago.  At this point, I'd be happy if we can get a couple of porta pottys in Hemming Plaza.  We've got all the potential in the world but like half the guys sitting in prison, we've failed to utilize our skills and assets in a proper manner.

[Kaiser Soze]

Can we get just one decent urban park that's just as vibrant as a place like Atlanta's Piedmont, New Orleans' City Park, Orlando's Lake Eola, St. Louis' Forest Park, Detroit's Belle Isle, etc?  I look at a similar space like Hogans Creek and can only shake my head and dream about what it must have looked like 70 years ago.  At this point, I'd be happy if we can get a couple of porta pottys in Hemming Plaza.  We've got all the potential in the world but like half the guys sitting in prison, we've failed to utilize our skills and assets in a proper manner.

This has been one of my biggest complaints about Jax for some time.

[ben says]

Is this building still for sale at 360k?

[JFman00]

These guys are also dead on about the parks.  Can we get just one decent urban park that's just as vibrant as a place like Atlanta's Piedmont, New Orleans' City Park, Orlando's Lake Eola, St. Louis' Forest Park, Detroit's Belle Isle, etc?  I look at a similar space like Hogans Creek and can only shake my head and dream about what it must have looked like 70 years ago.  At this point, I'd be happy if we can get a couple of porta pottys in Hemming Plaza.  We've got all the potential in the world but like half the guys sitting in prison, we've failed to utilize our skills and assets in a proper manner.

New Orleans Audobon Park, Chicago's Lincoln, Grant, and Millennium Parks, Boston Commons.

[Tacachale]

I also value simms' contributions and the good points he makes, though I do wish he didn't insist on making them in the most obnoxious possible way.

Getting back to the topic, who is supposed to tear down the building? Who would pay? And what are these masked men going to do with site?