The Jacksonville Jaguars

[mtraininjax]

Pay no attention to the Defensive powerhouses like SF or Baltimore or Pittsburgh or Denver or Houston or NY that also participated in the playoff's.

Did these defensive powerhouses make it to the Super Bowl last year? I rest my case.

So you're upset that GS addressed the part of the team that was ranked extremely poorly instead of the part that was better than average

You keep missing the sharp end of the stick, you don't need a top 5 or best D in the NFL to make it to the Super Bowl. You need a better offense, and GS sacrificed the offense to build a defense. So you got a better D, but worse offense in a sport and that translated to a 5-11 record, which was WORSE than the 8-8 from the previous season. But keep riding that #6 spot on D, sure hope it scores more points and wins more games for us this year!

[mtraininjax]

And BTW - The Packers suffered a significant slide too...

Did the Packers make the playoffs? Did they? Green Bay had the 3rd best Offense in the league.  Keep bringing them, I'll be here all day and night.

I do appreciate you going to NFL.com and reviewing the stats.

Duvaldude peeps in the room, still see's Mtrain in the forum, and closes the door --------------->

And like the closet Jags fan, says nothing.....

[duvaldude08]

And BTW - The Packers suffered a significant slide too...

Did the Packers make the playoffs? Did they? Green Bay had the 3rd best Offense in the league.  Keep bringing them, I'll be here all day and night.

I do appreciate you going to NFL.com and reviewing the stats.

Duvaldude peeps in the room, still see's Mtrain in the forum, and closes the door --------------->

And like the closet Jags fan, says nothing.....

No actually Im at work and this conversation has went around in circles. And one thing I dont do is debate about something this silly. You have your opinon and I have mine. And Im done with it. I have better things to do with my time, seriously. So you can have at. Im done.

[Shwaz]

Pay no attention to the Defensive powerhouses like SF or Baltimore or Pittsburgh or Denver or Houston or NY that also participated in the playoff's.

Did these defensive powerhouses make it to the Super Bowl last year? I rest my case.

So you're upset that GS addressed the part of the team that was ranked extremely poorly instead of the part that was better than average

You keep missing the sharp end of the stick, you don't need a top 5 or best D in the NFL to make it to the Super Bowl. You need a better offense, and GS sacrificed the offense to build a defense. So you got a better D, but worse offense in a sport and that translated to a 5-11 record, which was WORSE than the 8-8 from the previous season. But keep riding that #6 spot on D, sure hope it scores more points and wins more games for us this year!

Uh yeah... the Giants did and actually won the Super Bowl - maybe that wasn't in the stat pages you pined over today.

Sharp end of the stick - after the 2010 season it was offense that was sharp. DG broke team records - we sent a pass catcher to the pro bowl along with the most consistent RB in the league over the last 3 years. It was the defense that was dull and demanded attention. It's all up in your stats dude. Read it. The D was bad. The secondary was atrocious! GS patched those holes and should be lauded for the improvement!!

Of and just to keep up with the historical events of last offseason - GS also made a pretty big splash on the offensive side of the ball - remember the DRAFT! We moved up in the order to take the most important position on that side of the ball. The signal caller of the future!!!

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

You need a better offense, and GS sacrificed the offense to build a defense. So you got a better D, but worse offense in a sport and that translated to a 5-11 record, which was WORSE than the 8-8 from the previous season.

{Insert Nasaly, Snarky tone}

Are you saying he passed on the offense by drafting Gabbert, Rackley and Shorts in last year's draft?

Or that we passed up all of offensive weapons in FA that same year?  Let's see Santonio Holmes?  Braylon Edwards?  Oh yeah, everyone wanted, what's his name, Sydney Rice, how'd that work out?  Then there was Steve Smith of the Superbowl Giants.  Where is he playing now - it's not with the Eagles anymore is it?  Hmmmm, must not of worked out there either.

How about QBs, even though we had 3 going in to camp?  Yeah, probably not.

RBs - What with Mojo, Jennings and Karim, nope, no need.

{end of snarkiness}

Honestly, since we're playing the hindsight game, who would you have taken last year to beef up the O?  How about sacrificing the franchise for years to come by moving up a ridiculous 15 o so spots to get a WR - in Julio Jones?  Yeah, that's the ticket.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Speaking of the move to Julio, that wasn't as bad as I make it out.  Yes they did give up a ton of picks in the first 3 rounds, but the premise is solid - they didn't plan on having any picks in the lower first round to begin with.  So it only backfires if they go 8-8 and are picking near the top and have to give that top 15 pick to Cleveland, but hindsight and all.

[Tacachale]

Something else that needs to be considered is the effect of the QB situation on our offense overall last year. We were clearly not prepared for the loss of Garrard, and a lot would have been different with a preseason. This is not something that can be pinned entirely on Smith. Garrard's flopping would have become clear in training; we could have cut him then and spent the rest of the preseason coaching Gabby, or potentially pulled in someone else to start. Or perhaps they could have identified that Garrard was injured, in which case they could have put him on IR, and then done the above, with the added benefit of having a vet still with the team.

Clearly it's all going to come down to how much Gabbert improves, and how much else we can do with the offense. Taking a line item look, I'd say that Smith's drafting and free agency picks have been pretty solid and we have the chance to be a much stronger team this year. I'm willing to see how it unfolds this season before calling for my torch and pitchfork.

[Wacca Pilatka]

The other candidates were Sharks, Panthers, and Stingrays.  I think we got the best end of the deal given those choices.

I think I would've liked the Sharks (of those choices) because of the history.

I think a name more like the Browns or the Packers or Steelers would've been nice - not an animal, but rather something that refers to the owner (which we had with the Bulls) or something regional. Maybe the Jacksonville Sprawl 

Can we at least agree that the newer helmet logo and uniforms are better than the original helmet logo and the all teal uniform with the jaguar racing stripe thing?

I rather liked the original helmet (I have one in my office) but not the ridiculous uniform.  Particularly the racing stripe.  I'm glad there's no silver in the uniform either.  I wish there were more gold.

The Bulls had one of the best uniforms and helmets in the USFL, I think.

I don't guess we could have called the team the Weavers. 

I wasn't wild about the name Jaguars at first but have come to like it a lot, in part because it compelled me to learn more about jaguars, which in turn led me to appreciate their distinctive predatory skills (and to appreciate the excellent exhibit at the zoo).

[Adam W]

This awfulness?

http://sportslogos.net/logo.php?id=8g0pfpqig6vhxgf4q5ts53hvy

Yes! For some reason I thought the pants were teal, too. I just remember how bad it looked when they unveiled it. And the model they used clearly wasn't a football player, so he looked really skinny and like he was dressed up for Halloween.

[Wacca Pilatka]

Speaking of the move to Julio, that wasn't as bad as I make it out.  Yes they did give up a ton of picks in the first 3 rounds, but the premise is solid - they didn't plan on having any picks in the lower first round to begin with.  So it only backfires if they go 8-8 and are picking near the top and have to give that top 15 pick to Cleveland, but hindsight and all.

Agreed - that move looks much better now than it did to me at the time.

That said, I also agree strongly with you that the WR free agent options last year were remarkably unimpressive.

[Wacca Pilatka]

Yes! For some reason I thought the pants were teal, too. I just remember how bad it looked when they unveiled it. And the model they used clearly wasn't a football player, so he looked really skinny and like he was dressed up for Halloween.

The first person I saw wearing the uniform as a model was Wayne Weaver's brother Ron, who was wearing it over a business suit.  The effect wasn't any better than for whatever model you saw, I'm sure.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Speaking of the move to Julio, that wasn't as bad as I make it out.  Yes they did give up a ton of picks in the first 3 rounds, but the premise is solid - they didn't plan on having any picks in the lower first round to begin with.  So it only backfires if they go 8-8 and are picking near the top and have to give that top 15 pick to Cleveland, but hindsight and all.

Agreed - that move looks much better now than it did to me at the time.

That said, I also agree strongly with you that the WR free agent options last year were remarkably unimpressive.

The offensive market in its entirety last year was unremarkable. 

Not only that, we have the ability to even play the hindsight game, as I pointed out to MT, and there was no one out there that I would have even suggested, realistically.  I don't need to tell you, but to reiterate for the rest of the undisciplined readers:  You don't go blowing money on players in FA that you don't need, and you only spend the money on the needs that will fit your scheme.

MT wants to keep pushing the fact (albeit semi-incorrect) that with Gene Smith, we're in continual rebuilding mode, when the fact (actual) of the matter is that we've been in 'rebuilding mode' and haven't stopped, because in his system, you never stop building, and this is the fact that most can't wrap their heads around. 

Think about it like your car.  If you're not building (maintaining through the draft) your team (new BMW), then you're getting old and worn out.  You use FA to replace the players (parts) that were injured during the season or just too old to continue at a productive level (broke unexpectedly / wore out), then you have to make a quick patch (pay a premium for an aftermarket replacement) until you the draft pick from two years ago (the backordered OEM part) gets it.  If you wear out more than you can replace (lose to FA more than you can replace in the draft or resign), than you're stuck in a constant flux of building your team every year (replacing basic parts with really expensive aftermarket pieces) which will eventually screw your cap number (exceed the useful budget) and cause you to really go through a rebuilding process (buy a new car) and hope you don't make the same mistake again (keep the OEM parts on the shelf, whether you need them or not, just in case)  And if the team ever finds itself in a position where it's fully loaded at a position, then they still have the ability to trade for another position (swap parts) or draft picks (extra parts for new OEM parts).  Either way, you do what you can to keep your team together without using FA.  It should be considered a luxury when you can either afford it or need it, not the status quo.

[duvaldude08]

Speaking of the move to Julio, that wasn't as bad as I make it out.  Yes they did give up a ton of picks in the first 3 rounds, but the premise is solid - they didn't plan on having any picks in the lower first round to begin with.  So it only backfires if they go 8-8 and are picking near the top and have to give that top 15 pick to Cleveland, but hindsight and all.

Agreed - that move looks much better now than it did to me at the time.

That said, I also agree strongly with you that the WR free agent options last year were remarkably unimpressive.

The offensive market in its entirety last year was unremarkable. 

Not only that, we have the ability to even play the hindsight game, as I pointed out to MT, and there was no one out there that I would have even suggested, realistically.  I don't need to tell you, but to reiterate for the rest of the undisciplined readers:  You don't go blowing money on players in FA that you don't need, and you only spend the money on the needs that will fit your scheme.

MT wants to keep pushing the fact (albeit semi-incorrect) that with Gene Smith, we're in continual rebuilding mode, when the fact (actual) of the matter is that we've been in 'rebuilding mode' and haven't stopped, because in his system, you never stop building, and this is the fact that most can't wrap their heads around. 

Think about it like your car.  If you're not building (maintaining through the draft) your team (new BMW), then you're getting old and worn out.  You use FA to replace the players (parts) that were injured during the season or just too old to continue at a productive level (broke unexpectedly / wore out), then you have to make a quick patch (pay a premium for an aftermarket replacement) until you the draft pick from two years ago (the backordered OEM part) gets it.  If you wear out more than you can replace (lose to FA more than you can replace in the draft or resign), than you're stuck in a constant flux of building your team every year (replacing basic parts with really expensive aftermarket pieces) which will eventually screw your cap number (exceed the useful budget) and cause you to really go through a rebuilding process (buy a new car) and hope you don't make the same mistake again (keep the OEM parts on the shelf, whether you need them or not, just in case)  And if the team ever finds itself in a position where it's fully loaded at a position, then they still have the ability to trade for another position (swap parts) or draft picks (extra parts for new OEM parts).  Either way, you do what you can to keep your team together without using FA.  It should be considered a luxury when you can either afford it or need it, not the status quo.

And for some reason we tend to forget, me included how last year he focused on the offense during the draft (rackely, Gabbert, and shorts) and the defense during FA. This year aside from the defensive end postion, we will be focusing on strictly offense again this off season. I was on edge about free agency, but I calm down. I remember during the draft last year I was freaking out, "What about the defense!!!!" Then we made moves in free agency and it paid off.  I come to find out fans and just humans in general want instant gratification. They want to see a Cam Newton or Andy Dalton/AJ green coming out of the gate. And that is not realistic at all for most rookies. Im in wait and see mode at this point. I dont make judgements about anything until I see the results.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Nope, just playing the stat game to show you that you don't need to build the Taj Majal of defenses to get to the Super Bowl.

Now I'm going to argue in your favor against you.  (Is possible, yes?)

The Taj Majal of Defenses last year according to FA:  Philidelphia Eagles

August 29, 2011 Agreed to terms with QB Michael Vick on a six-year contract.
August 9, 2011 Signed DE Chris Wilson to a one-year contract and DT Marlon Favorite.
August 3, 2011 Agreed to terms with DT Anthony Hargrove and DT Derek Landri to one-year contracts
August 3, 2011 Agreed to terms with S Jarrad Page.

DATE TRANSACTION
July 30, 2011 Signed DL Cullen Jenkins to a five-year contract and LB Akeem Jordan.
July 29, 2011 Signed CB Nnamdi Asomugha to a five-year contract.
July 29, 2011 Traded QB Kevin Kolb to Arizona for CB Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie and a 2012 second-round draft pick. Agreed to terms with DE Jason Babin on a five-year contract. July 27, 2011 Agreed to terms with DB Jaiquawn Jarrett, DB Curtis Marsh, LB Casey Matthews, LB Brian Rolle

Quoted as the 'Dream Team' by perennial backup Vince Young.  Yet signing all that meat on the D side and promoting/hiring a D coordinator..... Zilch. 

Funny thing is, MT, they were considered the favorites based on ther potent Offense and their newly paid for Defense.  How'd that work out again?  I know the SB champ came from the NFC E.  Was it the Eagles?  Did they make the playoffs?  Did they have a winning season?  Was it because they had a brand new O? 

or MAYBE, just MAYBE, it's that their vaunted pre-season D was expected to out-do their already vaunted O.  Guess what?  D does make a difference if they can't consistently keep the other teams scoring more than you.

Philadelphia Eagles  PF - 396 PA 328 - The Eagles scored on average 4.25 more points than thier competitors and still didn't:  a) make the playoffs or b) have a winning season.    They only allowed 1 ppg more than us.   

Without digging into some obscure metrics, my general theory would be that in their conference, to win, you have to score a lot of points.  In ours, you have to not let the other team score a lot of points.  -  TO GET TO THE PLAYOFFS.

Once you're in the tournament, anything can happen.  And lately, our focus has been on preventing other teams from scoring.  I believe that's due to the available talent when it's our turn to draft and the talent that's already stockpiled on other teams.  Think about it, what better time to load up on a rookie qb (one that was predicted #1 overall up to a few weeks pre-draft) when you had a inkling that the #1 QB in your conference might not play?  What I'm alluding to is the fact that they management probably takes into consideration more than we give them credit for. 

We don't have a PM to gameplan for twice a season.  We don't have a MW to gameplan for twice a season.  You play first to win your division, and ours is open for the taking.  Hell, I might even go against my premise that GS will pick safely.  He might wow us with a draft pick or two because he realizes that all 4 teams in our division are in some process of rebuilding.  Whether it's a complete overhaul, ie the Colts.  A new D perspective, ie the Texans.  A new O and semi D perspective, ie the Tits.  The way I see it, we're ahead of the curve. 

I'm rambling, but I give all the credit to Gene Smith.  (for the foresight, and Lagunitus for the rambling.....)

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

I come to find out fans and just humans in general want instant gratification. They want to see a Cam Newton or Andy Dalton/AJ green coming out of the gate. And that is not realistic at all for most rookies. Im in wait and see mode at this point. I dont make judgements about anything until I see the results.

Other than a meaningless playoff game against a dominant Houston team, what did these QBs produce?  A rookie TD rushing title?  Tebow could have done that if they played him in his typical FLGator position.  The Ginger produced (and I think personally he'll be a really good QB) but his main target was a rookie WR that was picked 4th in the draft because of his playmaking ability in college.