So what's your vision of what Jacksonville could be?

[cline]

The City could have made it happen if they really wanted to.  In the end, it was a fail by that administration (not surprising though).

[thelakelander]

^Yes, if it were a real priority, a deal could have been worked out even if it meant giving away some parking.  Charlotte gave away the house for Johnson & Whales University.  However, when they came, that section of Uptown forever changed for the better.

[Adam W]

After all, just look to the last election.  Despite all the unbeautiful gloating before the fact and the seriously sour grapes afterwards, Arch Conservative Baptist Mike Hogan lost the election to the Democratic African American that frankly nobody had ever heard of before the election.  Doesn't sound very conservative when the rubber came down to meeting the road does it?

Sorry, Stephen, but I have to disagree. Jacksonville is very conservative, politically. Yes, it is a surprise of sorts that Hogan lost the election. But that doesn't mean Jacksonville suddenly has become liberal. And I wouldn't consider your new mayor to be very liberal at all. But it was a nice surprise.

I wouldn't consider the presence of Islam to be an indicator of liberalism, either. Muslims aren't known for that. It just means Jacksonville has some Muslims now.

I don't fault Jacksonville for being conservative and religious. It's not as conservative and religious as lots of other Southern towns and cities (in places like MS, TN or AL). But it certainly is more conservative than South Florida and definitely more conservative than the North East USA.

Sure, there are plenty or liberal, progressive or even genuine left-wing types in Jax. But for every one of those, there are plenty of the kind of people I worked with at various call centers and offices and the kind of guys I went to HS and university with.

I think spending a lot of time in Riverside (and its environs), San Marco, Springfield, etc makes things seem a bit better than they really are.

I think the fact someone pipe-bombed the local mosque and the fact that a UNF professor almost couldn't get appointed to the human rights commission (or whatever it was) simply because he was a Muslim speaks volumes about how conservative the city can be.

But we could argue all day and offer competing stories a 'proof' and never agree. But I do think the voting record of the city and the number of churches says a lot.

[Adam W]

I agree 100% on college campuses downtown - but I'm not sure that Florida Coastal or the Art Institute for that matter, would transition as they seem to be commuter schools without much "student/campus life" (imo).  Maybe that's how SCAD started?  Seems like UNF or JU could offer better extensions.

Regarding BOA, keep in mind that while they don't occupy all floors, they maintain a 43 story iconic presence downtown.  BOA's (and Citi, BCBS, Chase, Convergys, etc.) "suburban" campuses are operations/call centers typically built with wide open & expansive production floors/ work spaces - not conducive to high-rise structures.  This isn't limited to Jacksonville, rather more of an industry standard in any major city.  Citi simply outgrew their building when the mortgage industry went bust & shifted more into collections - I'm sure that it was a lucrative deal to get them to bite on the land "in the middle of nowhere".   It's not uncommon for call centers to relocate - even within the same region in an effort to tap into additional demographics (i.e. military/college towns; suburbia) - Convergys is king when it comes to this.  Back in the early '80's, when Convergys was still AT&T American Transtech - the story goes that the architect was tasked with "building a skyscraper on its side" for telemarketing & customer service efforts- the purple monster on Baymeadows Way was born (3 stories x 5 "floors").

That's an interesting point and one I failed to consider. I would, however, like to point out that I used to work at Wachovia in the call center (right around the time First Union and Wachovia merged) and our whole call center was located downtown, right by Hemming Plaza. I can't remember the name of the building, but it had a Quiznos on one corner. It wasn't the largest call centre, by any stretch of the imagination. I have no idea if they're still there.

When I worked at BoA, I worked in mortgage loan processing, and all of my counterparts in Charlotte (in mortgage processing) worked at the big BoA building downtown. So it's not impossible. I can appreciate the reasons why you need lots of floor space for large, open-plan call centers. But I think the many hundreds of folks in different mortgage departments at BoA could fit in nicely downtown.

(I worked at Citibank, too, and the less said about that place, the better).

[blizz01]

& to YOUR point, Everbank is doing just that.

[Adam W]

& to YOUR point, Everbank is doing just that.

+1000

[mtraininjax]

Yes, it is a surprise of sorts that Hogan lost the election.

Surprise, hell, it was the surprise of the century so far. Hogan got poor advice and got whipped the last few weeks in the public eye. But alas, we're all now with Alvin, good, bad or indifferent. And if the TU is correct, by 2030, whites will be a minority in Jacksonville. So we got that going for us.

[Adam W]

Yes, it is a surprise of sorts that Hogan lost the election.

Surprise, hell, it was the surprise of the century so far. Hogan got poor advice and got whipped the last few weeks in the public eye. But alas, we're all now with Alvin, good, bad or indifferent. And if the TU is correct, by 2030, whites will be a minority in Jacksonville. So we got that going for us.

I don't see the racial makeup of the city being a positive or negative thing. It just is.

[Adam W]

Its odd that you spent the first half pooh poohing the significance of the election and then turned to the voting record as your proof.

Oops... I guess I wasn't clear. Sorry about that. I was referring to the way the city has voted over time and in lots of elections, not just in the recent ones.

I guess Duval County is 'moderate' enough to vote for Romney over Santorum. But didn't McCain carry the county in the 2008 Presidential election? I can't remember.

[jerry cornwell]

  Its interesting how there was no mention of the CoRK event this weekend. Probably because its not downtown.
In the past year, a huge amount of original artists have located bone-fide state of the art studios at CoRK.
After All the years, downtown should be written off, with its only goal along the principles of Noone, the utilization of the natural resources centered but not exclusive, of the St Johns River. And obvious center of local government and destitute aid (provided by many charitable organizations centered downtown.
  One needs to accept that these underwater aquifers, wetlands, et al are unique to Jacksonville alone. And thats in the whole world. There is current legislation which is, in a general sense, trying to take away these resources and disrupt them to the more populous and politically powerful south (Orlando).
  Culturally speaking, the center has broken away from the hopeless downtown and moved to Riverside. Springfield and San Marco also figure in, but riverside has just blown off the map. There are several great nightclubs downtown, but they've been there too long and should re locate to the urban neighborhoods. And that includes new owners and operators who want to jump into the action.
Jacksonville is easily the cheapest place to live in Florida on the Atlantic coast and hipsters know it and are involved in it.
Thats whats my vision was when I relocated back in 2005 and its succeeded tremendously, although thats in my mind.
  And now im off to my studio to say high to Jim Draper, kick ideas with Shaun and Crystal, and collaborate with Morrison

[Tacachale]

  Its interesting how there was no mention of the CoRK event this weekend. Probably because its not downtown.
In the past year, a huge amount of original artists have located bone-fide state of the art studios at CoRK.
After All the years, downtown should be written off, with its only goal along the principles of Noone, the utilization of the natural resources centered but not exclusive, of the St Johns River. And obvious center of local government and destitute aid (provided by many charitable organizations centered downtown.
  One needs to accept that these underwater aquifers, wetlands, et al are unique to Jacksonville alone. And thats in the whole world. There is current legislation which is, in a general sense, trying to take away these resources and disrupt them to the more populous and politically powerful south (Orlando).
  Culturally speaking, the center has broken away from the hopeless downtown and moved to Riverside. Springfield and San Marco also figure in, but riverside has just blown off the map. There are several great nightclubs downtown, but they've been there too long and should re locate to the urban neighborhoods. And that includes new owners and operators who want to jump into the action.
Jacksonville is easily the cheapest place to live in Florida on the Atlantic coast and hipsters know it and are involved in it.
Thats whats my vision was when I relocated back in 2005 and its succeeded tremendously, although thats in my mind.
  And now im off to my studio to say high to Jim Draper, kick ideas with Shaun and Crystal, and collaborate with Morrison

I was there on Sunday. Totally off the hook. This is the kind of thing that makes me proud of Jacksonville and optimistic for the future.

[simms3]

Jacksonville is a conservative city, by far as conservative as they come, but that should by no means preclude progress and urban development.

Examples of conservative cities that are absolutely rocking it are everywhere:

Nashville
Salt Lake City
Indianapolis
San Diego arguably (basically extreme right wing for the Left Coast)
Chattanooga

and there are plenty 'o others

Face the fact that Jacksonville may never be liberal and may never have a vibe like Seattle, Boston or San Francisco politically or otherwise, but it still has an opportunity to grow economically and grow sustainably (and grow period).  People can be conservative and still have an appreciation for sustainability, good coffee shops and higher education and that's what Jacksonville needs to transition to - a progressive conservative city rather than a backward conservative city.

Most transplants moving down are largely moving down to escape higher costs of living brought on by absurd policies (which increase everything from local taxes to state taxes to license registration fees to transfer taxes to everything) and brought on by extreme density and extreme barriers to entry.  They are escaping the snow.  They are escaping overcrowding.  Many may consider themselves liberal, especially socially, but they will be the first to admit they are tired of being the benefactors of full tilt liberal ideology (it does cost the average working person a whole lot more than conservative states like FL, TN, and TX and conservative cities like Jacksonville).  They don't necessarily want to pack their bags, move down, and then see the millage rate go from 19 to 119.  They don't want to shovel snow - and they believe they can guarantee themselves that by moving to FL.

I mean seriously Jacksonville won't become a liberal haven, not even if it becomes a hub for immigration.  Immigrants don't want to tax themselves out of opportunity either!  What Jax can become is more like a 21st century sunbelt city, which is to say full of conservative citizens and politicians, but also diverse, growing, and embracing of progress - even if it means public transportation and expanded social programs.

[simms3]

And since when and where is Jacksonville "blowing up"?  I know there is progress and tons more 1st time homebuyers than there were at the top of the cycle, but population growth has slowed, virtually all construction has halted, and every time I am down I get depressed just seeing the lack of landscaping and at the horrible conditions of the roads (in a state which should not have any road problems or high costs of road maintenance).

Not to rag, but other cities much smaller than Jax are actually seeing lots of new construction of intown infill right now, and I don't mean a storefront here and there but whole mid-rise apartments and hotels, even some office.  I wish Jacksonville were seeing more progress, but I'm afraid some people haven't yet woken up and smelled the wilted roses.  It's time to put more water in the vase, and maybe the wilted roses will come back.  Jacksonville should be seeing a ton of infill going up right now, and a ton of infill at the beach, but I monitor this site closely, including the construction updates, and I'm not really seeing anything that perks my ears.

The beach has killed itself, except for retrofitting strip malls and filling up unsold bland stucco condo inventory and some new subdivision communities.  The city spent 8 years killing itself and has not recovered.  To me there is still a lot of work to be done before it can be said that the city is "blowing up".

[jerry cornwell]

And since when and where is Jacksonville "blowing up"?  I know there is progress and tons more 1st time homebuyers than there were at the top of the cycle, but population growth has slowed, virtually all construction has halted, and every time I am down I get depressed just seeing the lack of landscaping and at the horrible conditions of the roads (in a state which should not have any road problems or high costs of road maintenance).

Not to rag, but other cities much smaller than Jax are actually seeing lots of new construction of intown infill right now, and I don't mean a storefront here and there but whole mid-rise apartments and hotels, even some office.  I wish Jacksonville were seeing more progress, but I'm afraid some people haven't yet woken up and smelled the wilted roses.  It's time to put more water in the vase, and maybe the wilted roses will come back.  Jacksonville should be seeing a ton of infill going up right now, and a ton of infill at the beach, but I monitor this site closely, including the construction updates, and I'm not really seeing anything that perks my ears.

The beach has killed itself, except for retrofitting strip malls and filling up unsold bland stucco condo inventory and some new subdivision communities.  The city spent 8 years killing itself and has not recovered.  To me there is still a lot of work to be done before it can be said that the city is "blowing up".

You and I are talking apple and oranges. In terms of culture, pop and otherwise, I do admire your 5 choices. But J(action)ville out rocks them all. If you want to make financial worth, umm yeah, you're right, Jax isn't a good choice.
But if you like it loud and original, the town of Skynyrd, Limp Biscuit, the Black Kids ect ect ect is the place to be!

[Anti redneck]

And since when and where is Jacksonville "blowing up"?  I know there is progress and tons more 1st time homebuyers than there were at the top of the cycle, but population growth has slowed, virtually all construction has halted, and every time I am down I get depressed just seeing the lack of landscaping and at the horrible conditions of the roads (in a state which should not have any road problems or high costs of road maintenance).

Not to rag, but other cities much smaller than Jax are actually seeing lots of new construction of intown infill right now, and I don't mean a storefront here and there but whole mid-rise apartments and hotels, even some office.  I wish Jacksonville were seeing more progress, but I'm afraid some people haven't yet woken up and smelled the wilted roses.  It's time to put more water in the vase, and maybe the wilted roses will come back.  Jacksonville should be seeing a ton of infill going up right now, and a ton of infill at the beach, but I monitor this site closely, including the construction updates, and I'm not really seeing anything that perks my ears.

The beach has killed itself, except for retrofitting strip malls and filling up unsold bland stucco condo inventory and some new subdivision communities.  The city spent 8 years killing itself and has not recovered.  To me there is still a lot of work to be done before it can be said that the city is "blowing up".

Jacksonville is NOT blowing up and the way it's going right now, it never will. I just wish people would see that and get with the program. I want people to see what I see instead of just putting in a place like SJTC and say "Oh, Jacksonville is blowing up." There needs to be a change in mentality and it needs to start now. Incase anyone noticed, everyone laughs at Jacksonville. They hate Jacksonville because of how backwards it is. People can say what they want to disagree and defend its "progress". When I see some real progress, that's when I will be convinced.