Thousands of children are deprived of birth due to lack of vasectomy regulation

[FayeforCure]

I... me and myself... am concerned about the future ethics of scientists and medical officials in this area.

Oh really? If you or your kids were vaccinated you were the beneficiary of human fetal cells, that were used to derive those vacines.

Did you object?

http://www.immunizationinfo.org/issues/vaccine-components/human-fetal-links-some-vaccines

[BridgeTroll]

I... me and myself... am concerned about the future ethics of scientists and medical officials in this area.

Oh really? If you or your kids were vaccinated you were the beneficiary of human fetal cells, that were used to derive those vacines.

Did you object?

http://www.immunizationinfo.org/issues/vaccine-components/human-fetal-links-some-vaccines

I did not.  I was unaware of this.  It certainly illustrates the dilemma some including myself feel.  One of the references listed in the article speaks to the considerations I brought up earlier...

http://www.immunizationinfo.org/files/nnii/files/Moral_Considerations_With_Certain_Viral_Vaccines.pdf

[FayeforCure]

Well. hopefully you understand my annoyance at worries over stuff that has already been going on for decades for immense human benefit.

To retroactively try to stop embryonic stem cell research from receiving federal funding is just soooo ludicrous, after fetal stem cells are completely legal to be used and have been used for decades.

What we have to do is regulate ESCR and provide appropriate oversight instead.

[BridgeTroll]

Hopefully the line remains just where it is.  I am skeptical.  In the case of the vaccinations... one... the rubella vaccine... the fetus was aborted because it and the mother had rubella and those cells have been used ever since.  In the other cases the same cells have been duplicated and used for decades.  I personally think medical ethicists will continue to push that line further... "Since this was ok... lets go here."  "Since that was ok... lets go there."  Is there a line?  What is the line?  Who decides the line?

[FayeforCure]

Hopefully the line remains just where it is.  I am skeptical.  In the case of the vaccinations... one... the rubella vaccine... the fetus was aborted because it and the mother had rubella and those cells have been used ever since.  In the other cases the same cells have been duplicated and used for decades.  I personally think medical ethicists will continue to push that line further... "Since this was ok... lets go here."  "Since that was ok... lets go there."  Is there a line?  What is the line?  Who decides the line?

Regulation and oversight should police this............or maybe we just shouldn't be so afraid........after all decades of legal fetal cell use have not created abuse.

[BridgeTroll]

Who is "regulation and oversight"?

[FayeforCure]

Who is "regulation and oversight"?

Government's role to protect its citizens.

[Tacachale]

I am sure you would agree that religious dogma is not a popularity contest ...

I do agree with that. I don't agree that all Catholics find the mandate to be "government interference with religion", let alone that birth control is immoral to begin with.

As a non practicing Catholic myself... I also do not think using birth control is immoral.  I go against the teaching and dogma of the church in encouraging my wife and daughter to use birth control.  I do however think the government is inserting itself or interfering with the Catholic churches teachings by attempting to force them as a church to pay for others birth control or abortion.... and they should not.

And you are of course entitled to that belief. Just note that not all, or evidently even a majority, of Catholics share it.

[BridgeTroll]

Who is "regulation and oversight"?

Government's role to protect its citizens.

Ah... ok

[BridgeTroll]

I am sure you would agree that religious dogma is not a popularity contest ...

I do agree with that. I don't agree that all Catholics find the mandate to be "government interference with religion", let alone that birth control is immoral to begin with.

As a non practicing Catholic myself... I also do not think using birth control is immoral.  I go against the teaching and dogma of the church in encouraging my wife and daughter to use birth control.  I do however think the government is inserting itself or interfering with the Catholic churches teachings by attempting to force them as a church to pay for others birth control or abortion.... and they should not.

And you are of course entitled to that belief. Just note that not all, or evidently even a majority, of Catholics share it.

Thank you...

[Fallen Buckeye]

First, regarding whether the HHS mandate is a "Catholic issue," the answer is no. It is an American issue because it concerns the rights guaranteed to all Americans in our Constitution. That's why other religious leaders from Jewish rabbis to Southern Baptists have joined the fight. Whether a majority of Catholics disagree with the Church on contraception is irrelevant because if they can take freedoms from one minority what is to stop them taking them from others. That's how tyrants are made.

Also, Faye and I have already had a discussion at length about embryonic stem cell research, but let me just say that the fact that Faye can talk about a human life as medical waste that can be recycled actually illustrates what's wrong with both IVF and embryonic stem cell research and why it is a slippery slope. What I think BridgeTroll was getting at Faye with his point about fetal stem cells is that the way your side of the argument defines a human is very hazy at best. Case in point. I read the other day that some people in the Netherlands are now debating about the merits of "after-birth abortion" These Dutch bioethicists claim, “The moral status of an infant is equivalent to that of a fetus in the sense that both lack those properties that justify the attribution of a right to life to an individual.”

The fact that such an atrocity is being seriously discussed illustrates how subjective your definition of life is. The only logical and consistent point of view is that life begins at conception, and based on that truth IVF, embryonic stem cell research, and abortion are immoral regardless of any positive outcomes that could result. And just to illustrate that point you only need to look at the Holocaust. Even though we learned a lot about the human body from the tortuous Nazi research on the Jews we could never claim that their actions were justifiable because that good came at the expense of another person's right to life. So even if IVF can produce a precious little child or embryonic stem cell research can possibly produce medical treatments they are immoral because those treatments are coming at the expense of of other human lives. That's a price we cannot force someone to pay, and if we cannot even protect the most basic of human rights for all what does that say about our society?

[Gonzo]

Wow, yeah........according the religious dogma Heaven must be populated by the Souls of embryos........and women are embryo killers every time they have their period 
because millions of fertilized eggs never implant to even become an embryo (in the scientific meaning of the word).

BTW, the above picture showed the fertlized ovum magnified.......
Below you will find the actual "tip of a needle" size ovum depicted and the eventual picture of a first stage embryo still just the size of a period at the end of a sentence.........note that the word embryo is used only AFTER implantation:



The very first speck after fertilized ovum is the blastocyst ( a 5 day old fertilized ovum)...........these are being discarded by the thousands EVERY day at ivf clinics around the US, and a minute number like .000005% are used in stem cell research with the express consent of the donors.

Why don't people like you go try to save them at the ivf clinics rather than harrass the sick and injured, and the scientists who recycle this ivf trash.

How utterly ubsurd you are, a woman's monthly cycle is NOT the same ting as harvesting embryonic cells. It boggles the mind that you would even go there! And, you are a woman who supposedly is somewhat intelligent. Tell me, how could a natural occurance be considered willful distruction of a fertilized fetus?

As stated before, my objection is to the use of fertalized and growing fetuses. Life begins a conception, there is no other benchmark that can be used to determine this. Intentionally harvesting these viable fetuses for use in scientific is the of immorality and absolutley wrong. Theuse of stem cells from the umbilical cord, however, is not an issue.

Instead of attacking me for my views, why not advocate the use of umbilical stem cells and respect not only life, but other's opinions and closely held beleifs?

[Tacachale]

First, regarding whether the HHS mandate is a "Catholic issue," the answer is no. It is an American issue because it concerns the rights guaranteed to all Americans in our Constitution. That's why other religious leaders from Jewish rabbis to Southern Baptists have joined the fight. Whether a majority of Catholics disagree with the Church on contraception is irrelevant because if they can take freedoms from one minority what is to stop them taking them from others. That's how tyrants are made.

Well, as I said, a majority of American Catholics agree with the mandate (even more of them disagree with the Church on birth control). I would say a large portion of us wish they hadn't picked this particular wedge issue to take a stand on, as it's a losing battle in the long run. Is this really where we want to spend our energy and resources? For most Catholics, it is not.

The priorities are just ridiculously off. In terms of just our diocese, for instance, I wish they'd take just half the time they spend droning on and on about birth control and abortion and use it for more effective outreach to young men who may feel called to become a priest. That way we wouldn't have to lean so heavily on priests past the age of retirement or imported from far-flung dioceses. Without shepherds you eventually lose the flock.

[finehoe]

Reps are NOT against contraception. 

Santorum: Contraception is ‘a grievous moral wrong’.

[BridgeTroll]

Reps are NOT against contraception. 

Santorum: Contraception is ‘a grievous moral wrong’.

As a devout catholic... this makes sense...