Riverside Park Development Proposed For Brooklyn

[Kaiser Soze]

Fieldafm, the buildings you referenced in Tampa and ATL are beautiful.  I agree with you there.  But Jacksonville has a much more limited market for the higher-end apartments that you are suggesting.

The numbers don't suggest that.  This would be the sixth new high end apartment complex to be built in Jacksonville this year. 

NONE of which had anything to do with the lack of a Mobility Fee, btw (to be fair, Brooklyn Park is seperate from Mobility, this falls under a JEDC redevelopment agreement).

What numbers?  Is this considered high end?

[vicupstate]

Why is anyone building so much rental when there are foreclosed houses everywhere and rental rates are depressed?  I realize it is a free market, but I'm surprised the lenders will fund them.

[I-10east]

Maybe you should visit more places.

Whether I been to alotta places or not doesn't matter, MJ is destined to micromanage this Brooklyn development like a drill sergeant. This is Brooklyn in Jax not in NY. I'm no genius when it comes to architechure, but I know a lil' about it. This development looks like a good thing for Brooklyn. Beggars can't be choosy here, it looks decent to me. Maybe a couple of coffee joints, alotta parasols, and yuppies/hipsters throughout the complex will make up for the 'supposed' shortcomings. Atleast wait until the thing gets builted become bashing it already. 

[fieldafm]

Why is anyone building so much rental when there are foreclosed houses everywhere and rental rates are depressed?  I realize it is a free market, but I'm surprised the lenders will fund them.

It's actually the complete opposite. Rental rates on apartment communities are increasing and occupancy is quite healthy.

Apartment communities are actually quite hot right now.  If you have a quality referal, I bet you I could find cheap money to build one.

Why do you think Hallmark recently changed their plans for 220 Riverside?

[fieldafm]

Maybe you should visit more places.

Whether I been to alotta places or not doesn't matter, MJ is destined to micromanage this Brooklyn development like a drill sergeant. This is Brooklyn in Jax not in NY. I'm no genius when it comes to acrhitechure, but this development looks like a good thing for Brooklyn. Beggars can't be choosy here, it looks decent to me. Maybe a couple of coffee joints, alotta parasols, and yuppies/hipsters throughout the complex will make up for the 'supposed' shortcomings. Atleast wait until the thing gets builted become bashing it already.

If you hate MJ so much, why post so often?

I would also counter that 'micromanaging' is the exact opposite of what Ennis is saying.  It literally does not affect the overall cost structure to flip a few things around in the design of the complex.
 

[Captain Zissou]

A perfect example of what could be done is just over a mile away, The Villas of St Johns.  They front the street, conceal parking within the development, and ensure the safety of the residents by using gates.  That's all Riverside Park needs to do.  The occupancy rate at the Villas is also very very high, while having some of the highest rents in the neighborhood.  The market is definitely there for a well done urban apartment community.

One question I have is how expensive would a 2 level parking garage be??  Just one single deck over a surface parking lot.  It would cut the footprint of parking in half, but be less expensive per space than a full garage.  Then they would be able to advertise 200 carport spaces on the first floor.  I also think it's funny that they are bemoaning the "75 to 100 basis point decrease in profit".  That's 0.75-1%.  I know they aren't philanthropists, but I think the increased cost would be eliminated by a rent and occupancy increase.

[fieldafm]

One question I have is how expensive would a 2 level parking garage be??  Just one single deck over a surface parking lot.  It would cut the footprint of parking in half, but be less expensive per space than a full garage.  Then they would be able to advertise 200 carport spaces on the first floor.  I also think it's funny that they are bemoaning the "75 to 100 basis point decrease in profit".  That's 0.75-1%.  I know they aren't philanthropists, but I think the increased cost would be eliminated by a rent and occupancy increase.

It would be about 4-5 times the cost of surface parking.  It's not a 1% difference, that's for sure. 

[I-10east]

If you hate MJ so much, why post so often?

I would also counter that 'micromanaging' is the exact opposite of what Ennis is saying.  It literally does not affect the overall cost structure to flip a few things around in the design of the complex.

I don't hate MJ, I put up with it; JK, I love MJ. MJ would be a pretty boring site if everyone shared the same exact opinion don't ya think? Okay I get it, Capt'n mentioned The Villas of St Johns, so basically yall wan't a 'tall wall' of buildings directly on the street huh? Okay, I or most of the general public don't think that the current proposed Brooklyn design 'flaws' is a big deal, but yall are pretty knit-picky when it comes to stuff like that. I hope that it will change the way yall want it to for the sake of me not hearing about the 'failed Brooklyn design' for three straight years.

[Kaiser Soze]

Why is anyone building so much rental when there are foreclosed houses everywhere and rental rates are depressed?  I realize it is a free market, but I'm surprised the lenders will fund them.

Many potential homebuyers cannot received financing therefore there is a perceived demand for rental units.

[Captain Zissou]

I imagine this will be stick built or tilt up, so what would the build out costs for something like this be?

This is Brooklyn in Jax not in NY. I'm no genius when it comes to architechure, but I know a lil' about it. This development looks like a good thing for Brooklyn. Beggars can't be choosy here, it looks decent to me.

This is how we ended up with a 6 story, 6 block courthouse.

The villas is just this development done in a more urban fashion.  Neither of these developments have a retail component, so there aren't going to be storefronts or cafes or anything.

[I-10east]

The villas is just this development done in a more urban fashion.  Neither of these developments have a retail component, so there aren't going to be storefronts or cafes or anything.

Okay, but not all developments are designed for retail, for all we know no retail is ever gonna come, even with the 'MJ 's streetscape plan'. If I'm not mistaken, the Villas of St Johns had all of the retail stores included (I'm not sure though). I'll put it this way, if this Brooklyn plan is discouraging any future adjoining or nearby retail developments (it's kinda hard to say that in stone right now, esp since it's so early) then I agree with you; If it never was designed to have retail at all (regardless of the layout design) then I don't think that the 'shortcomings' are a big deal at all.

[vicupstate]

Why is anyone building so much rental when there are foreclosed houses everywhere and rental rates are depressed?  I realize it is a free market, but I'm surprised the lenders will fund them.

It's actually the complete opposite. Rental rates on apartment communities are increasing and occupancy is quite healthy.

Apartment communities are actually quite hot right now.  If you have a quality referal, I bet you I could find cheap money to build one.

Why do you think Hallmark recently changed their plans for 220 Riverside?

I was aware of the apartment building freenzy nationally, and here in my home state of SC.  But we were spared the brunt of the foreclosure wave.  It would seem the plethora of rental houses would be filling the demand for rentals.  Aren't Southside condos selling for a couple of dimes on the dollar still?

[thelakelander]

Yes, but the market conditions are driving people to rent instead of buy, in most cases.

[thelakelander]

The villas is just this development done in a more urban fashion.  Neither of these developments have a retail component, so there aren't going to be storefronts or cafes or anything.

Okay, but not all developments are designed for retail, for all we know no retail is ever gonna come, even with the 'MJ 's streetscape plan'. If I'm not mistaken, the Villas of St Johns had all of the retail stores included (I'm not sure though). I'll put it this way, if this Brooklyn plan is discouraging any future adjoining or nearby retail developments (it's kinda hard to say that in stone right now, esp since it's so early) then I agree with you; If it never was designed to have retail at all (regardless of the layout design) then I don't think that the 'shortcomings' are a big deal at all.

Not having retail isn't a short coming.  There's plenty of opportunity for retail in the area, with existing buildings and proposed adjacent developments like 220 Riverside.  That area needs residents and lots of them.  The entire urban core needs more housing options at a variety of sizes and price ranges.  A project like this serves these needs perfectly.

[CityLife]

Wonder if there will be sentries posted on the carriage houses? The developers/architects may perceive this as an "unsafe" area (it isn't). However, designing it as if its in the middle of East St. Louis may seem like the right move to them now, but it will be outdated in 5 years when the surrounding area has become properly developed. The article pointed out the obvious solutions. Just make the buildings front the street and take away the stupid carriage houses and fences. Make the residents feel like they are in an urban, walkable community. Don't hide them behind fences and parking. That creates a mental/physical buffer between residents and the surrounding community.

As it is designed, I see this is a possibility for failure. The last thing Jax needs is a failed example of urban residential development. Especially when a few tweaks could make the development much more successful.