The Jacksonville Jaguars

[Wacca Pilatka]

I wonder if were going to go after Cliff Arvil in free agency. He is a beast at DE and a home town guy. Give him a fat contract and he will come home. He has already stated that if the Lion try to franchise him hes going to hold out. I think we should make him an offer during free agency and see if he bites.

Im just un certain how that works. If they try to franchise him, but he decides to hold out, is he in the open market? NFL Gods please help me with this questions

I think if you franchise a player, he has no choice but to play for you.  However, I do recall a situation in 1993 where the Redskins franchised Wilber Marshall, but he was refusing to report to the team, and they traded him to the Oilers.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

I wonder if were going to go after Cliff Arvil in free agency. He is a beast at DE and a home town guy. Give him a fat contract and he will come home. He has already stated that if the Lion try to franchise him hes going to hold out. I think we should make him an offer during free agency and see if he bites.

Im just un certain how that works. If they try to franchise him, but he decides to hold out, is he in the open market? NFL Gods please help me with this questions

I think if you franchise a player, he has no choice but to play for you.  However, I do recall a situation in 1993 where the Redskins franchised Wilber Marshall, but he was refusing to report to the team, and they traded him to the Oilers.

By franchising a player, the team keeps his rights and signs him to a one year tender to the tune of whatever the average of the 5 highest players make at that position.  They can still trade him, but it gets really expensive for the other teams considering the amount his contract would be worth.
A RFA still has one year left on their contract and can be given an offer from another team, but the team they are currently rosetered with has last look - they can match the offer and keep the player.  If they lose the player, they are awarded a fairly high draft pick from the team that bought him, based on the player's performance.  Typically rounds 1-3.
A UFA is a gun for hire.  No restrictions.  Although, the teams that lose good players in FA are awarded compensatory picks for the next year's draft based on the skill level of the player they lost.  Typically in rounds 5-7.

[copperfiend]

I wonder if were going to go after Cliff Arvil in free agency. He is a beast at DE and a home town guy. Give him a fat contract and he will come home. He has already stated that if the Lion try to franchise him hes going to hold out. I think we should make him an offer during free agency and see if he bites.

Im just un certain how that works. If they try to franchise him, but he decides to hold out, is he in the open market? NFL Gods please help me with this questions

Avril would have been nice. But it is smart of Detroit to not let him go. One thing to keep in mind. If Avril plays for the franchise tag this season, he will be available next offseason and the franchise tag goes up the second year.

[mtraininjax]

I dont think you have to worry about that one. WR's and DE are main needs right now. As long as both are taken care of during the draft and free agency, I am fine.

But that is just the point I want to make, everyone in the stands can see we have the need, but the dadgum GM! We passed up on real playmakers for a QB who wanted to become a WR and other flash in the pans, we need a WR who can do what Jimmy Smith did, our current guys are nice, but Jimmy was a playmaker and he sold a lot of tickets.

I hope Khan has the veto button and is not afraid to use it on draft day!

[duvaldude08]

I wonder if were going to go after Cliff Arvil in free agency. He is a beast at DE and a home town guy. Give him a fat contract and he will come home. He has already stated that if the Lion try to franchise him hes going to hold out. I think we should make him an offer during free agency and see if he bites.

Im just un certain how that works. If they try to franchise him, but he decides to hold out, is he in the open market? NFL Gods please help me with this questions

I think if you franchise a player, he has no choice but to play for you.  However, I do recall a situation in 1993 where the Redskins franchised Wilber Marshall, but he was refusing to report to the team, and they traded him to the Oilers.

By franchising a player, the team keeps his rights and signs him to a one year tender to the tune of whatever the average of the 5 highest players make at that position.  They can still trade him, but it gets really expensive for the other teams considering the amount his contract would be worth.
A RFA still has one year left on their contract and can be given an offer from another team, but the team they are currently rosetered with has last look - they can match the offer and keep the player.  If they lose the player, they are awarded a fairly high draft pick from the team that bought him, based on the player's performance.  Typically rounds 1-3.
A UFA is a gun for hire.  No restrictions.  Although, the teams that lose good players in FA are awarded compensatory picks for the next year's draft based on the skill level of the player they lost.  Typically in rounds 5-7.

Thank you NFL God LOL

[kells904]

But that is just the point I want to make, everyone in the stands can see we have the need, but the dadgum GM! We passed up on real playmakers for a QB who wanted to become a WR and other flash in the pans, we need a WR who can do what Jimmy Smith did, our current guys are nice, but Jimmy was a playmaker and he sold a lot of tickets.

I hope Khan has the veto button and is not afraid to use it on draft day!

A few things:

Every team in the NFL has needs, and always will no matter what they do.  They change with what caliber of players are available and the decisions they make.  The Patriots got all the way to the Super Bowl with a really bad defense, like the Packers did the year before.  And some teams, like the 2000 Ravens and '07 Giants, made it with so-so offensive play.  It's the ability to overcome your deficiencies that counts most.  Also, I believe you're referring to the Matt Jones pick, when you're talking about a QB "that wanted to play WR".  If I'm not mistaken, that was the team's decision because Jones was supposedly an athletic 'freak of nature'.  That pick was made by Shack Harris, not Gene Smith.  Thanks to hindsight though, it's easy to second guess a profession where you're trying to predict the future.  Vic Ketchman always said "it'sa  crystal ball business" because it really is.  Imagine if Jones had become a star somewhere else.  The outcry would be that the Jaguars are idiots for having passed on him.  For GMs, you're a moron in the eyes of the fans no matter what you do, unless your players are winning games.

As far as Khan having a veto button, I'd say that qualifies as micromanaging, and I don't think he wants to do that.  He's openly admitted that he would be picking players on emotion rather than rationale with his current level of NFL knowledge.  So Khan getting to overly involved in a process he's hired people to take care of for him seems to me like a recipe for disaster.  What I expect him to do is judge the GM and the scouts based on their ability to put together a good team, not go the Dan Snyder route with players.  Despite Snyder "making it rain", the Redskins still suck.  The same argument can be made about Jerry Jones and the Cowboys, but those two teams will have entrenched fan bases until the end of human civilization, and it doesn't matter how woefully average they are.

We should know by midseason '12 whether or not Gene's philosophy is working.

[duvaldude08]

I don't think you have to worry about that one. WR's and DE are main needs right now. As long as both are taken care of during the draft and free agency, I am fine.

But that is just the point I want to make, everyone in the stands can see we have the need, but the dadgum GM! We passed up on real playmakers for a QB who wanted to become a WR and other flash in the pans, we need a WR who can do what Jimmy Smith did, our current guys are nice, but Jimmy was a playmaker and he sold a lot of tickets.

I hope Khan has the veto button and is not afraid to use it on draft day!

Oh of course. The problem we have now is our WR core are all young rookie with ZERO experience. Mike Thomas is the most experienced, however he is really a slot guy and there is only so much he is capiable of. Jarret Dillard a solid "rookie" season this year. He's good on short routes and I like that he always gets both feet in bounds. Short, Robeski and West have no experience.

But we need a Jimmy! LOL And to ur point, if you've been keeping up with the news. Gene knows that our number need is WR and honestly that's all the entire coaching staff has been scouting for at this point. We've spent two year building up the defense and after last seasons melt down there is no way possible to ignore the WR position unless you are on crack. I think we need one rookie wideout. There are several good wideouts in this draft class (at least in my opinion). This season I have been doing my own homework on them via youtube LOL!!  one veteran wideout would be a good fit also. We need some experience in the WR core. Right now there is none.

[duvaldude08]

The same argument can be made about Jerry Jones and the Cowboys, but those two teams will have entrenched fan bases until the end of human civilization, and it doesn't matter how woefully average they are.

I just told my friend something similar about the Cowboys. For them to have so much money, and have the highest paid salaries in the league, you would think they would have a beast of a team, and they dont. They have a bunch of overpaid Diva's. I think that is what happens when your owner is being GM. Jerry Jones needs to let someone know what they doing to take over GM. How they can have all that money, but yet have some of the crappiest players is beyond me. We STOMPED them in 2010 with a medicore Jags team.

[mtraininjax]

Jones and Snyder have the #1 and #2 valuations of NFL teams. The Cowboys are worth close to 2 billion bucks with the Patriots, Giants and Jets close behind. These guys know how to build a market for their teams, none of the top 5 teams are every mentioned in "moving to a new city", so I think Khan will be a lot more like Jones and Snyder to help grow and expand the Jaguar product. This is a business first and foremost.

As with any good business, you have to create a product that people want to see. To that end, Khan may not be a rocket scientist when it comes to evaluating player talent, but he has a staff of Smith and his people for it. I have more faith in Khan and I know he will have no problem yanking Smith out of the Jags if we have another sub par year and/or players that do not pan out.

[duvaldude08]

Jones and Snyder have the #1 and #2 valuations of NFL teams. The Cowboys are worth close to 2 billion bucks with the Patriots, Giants and Jets close behind. These guys know how to build a market for their teams, none of the top 5 teams are every mentioned in "moving to a new city", so I think Khan will be a lot more like Jones and Snyder to help grow and expand the Jaguar product. This is a business first and foremost.

As with any good business, you have to create a product that people want to see. To that end, Khan may not be a rocket scientist when it comes to evaluating player talent, but he has a staff of Smith and his people for it. I have more faith in Khan and I know he will have no problem yanking Smith out of the Jags if we have another sub par year and/or players that do not pan out.

Just for the hell of it, the Partiots were actually going to move before Kraft bought the team. Kraft is the reason they stayed. Your point is well taken though. As as far as building markets, that's not hard to do when you've had your team for 50, 60, and 70 years and have atleast two SB titles.  Not to mention every city you mentioned has a metro population 2-3 times ours. Building our market will be an uphill battle for a long time. You are correct about Gene, if Khan is not pleased he will be gone. But my point has with Gene has always been that we are too critical of him. We completely gutted our roster after the 2008 season and had to build from the bottom up.  If anyone think we were going to build a championship caliber team in two drafts and free agency clearly has their head in the sand. Ive just decided to leave football decisions to those that know most about it.

[duvaldude08]

Even the Partiots had problems

Move to the NFL
In the mid 80s, Kraft had purchased land adjacent to the then used Foxboro Stadium. In the late 80s, Kraft bought the stadium from then owner Billy Sullivan from bankruptcy court for 25 million dollars.

Kraft had been a long time avid football fan of his local team the New England Patriots since their American Football League days before the NFL was formed. He had been a season ticket holder for years and had attended games regularly at their less than stellar facilities.

During the early 90s, the Patriots were really struggling and were rumored to be moving to St. Louis. The then owner, in 1994, offered Kraft the buy out of the lease on the stadium for 75 million dollars, which would have almost guaranteed the Patriots move to a new city. However, luckily for the Patriots, their fans, and for Kraft, he would decline the offer.

Instead, Kraft counter offered the then owner of the Patriots to buy the franchise for $175,000,000 dollars. At the time it was a new NFL record and many people did not understand the purchase, due to the fact that at the time, the Patriots were one of the least valuable franchises in the NFL because of their terrible track record and low fan support.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

I may be in the minority, but I'm pretty satisfied with the drafting and FA of the past 3 years.  It may be because in my head, I see the plan in action.

He is rebuilding an NFL team through the draft and it's a process that takes time.  He is helping the team out by getting the most consistent guys with a high floor - the kind of players that may not be superstars, but they will play at a better than average consistency over the course of their career.  We're seeing that now.  Nobody he's drafted is a superstar, but they are all playing better than most at their positions. 

I personally don't see us doing anything dramatic this year, either.  He's going to pick a player that he knows will perform at a high level - no matter what school they went to or what their name is.  We'll add another 2-3 solid players in the draft and we'll see what happens with FA, but I can rest assured that there won't be another Jerry Porter signing.  My hopes are for Stevie Johnson (1) & Reggie Wayne (1.5). 

If Gene has as good of an offseason as he did last year, if I'm a betting man, I would say he takes more of a chance next year in the draft or FA.  He's building a core, then he can worry about window dressing.  He's doing it the way it needs to be done.  It takes a few years.

[mtraininjax]

I spend $4500 with the Jags every year for my club seats and parking. I hear what you are saying about leaving decisions to the team, but still, I have made an investment, every year in the team. They invite me, as a fan to many events and getting to know the team and see the facilities and I think the Jags employees are all great people, but I still want to win every game we play and when I see areas that need improvement, I comment to them. I think Khan is right that the only serious and true fans are the one in the seats. So there, he threw down the gauntlet. Now it is up to Smith to find the players that will bring in the "true fans". Gene Smith is on the hot seat, where he should be.

I don't expect a Super Bowl team next year, but I expect improvement on the field and off the field with the fans showing up with higher expectations. I expect to see a top notch WR in camp for the Jags, if I don't you can take it to the bank, I will let the Jags know about it and I will not be alone!

Forget what happened before Kraft bought the team, the fact remains they are top tier team because of the owner, I am hoping Khan will bring the same enthusiasm to the Jags. Jones was extremely impressed with Khan, and St. Louis loss, IMO, is our gain in Jacksonville.

[duvaldude08]

I spend $4500 with the Jags every year for my club seats and parking. I hear what you are saying about leaving decisions to the team, but still, I have made an investment, every year in the team. They invite me, as a fan to many events and getting to know the team and see the facilities and I think the Jags employees are all great people, but I still want to win every game we play and when I see areas that need improvement, I comment to them. I think Khan is right that the only serious and true fans are the one in the seats. So there, he threw down the gauntlet. Now it is up to Smith to find the players that will bring in the "true fans". Gene Smith is on the hot seat, where he should be.

I don't expect a Super Bowl team next year, but I expect improvement on the field and off the field with the fans showing up with higher expectations. I expect to see a top notch WR in camp for the Jags, if I don't you can take it to the bank, I will let the Jags know about it and I will not be alone!

Forget what happened before Kraft bought the team, the fact remains they are top tier team because of the owner, I am hoping Khan will bring the same enthusiasm to the Jags. Jones was extremely impressed with Khan, and St. Louis loss, IMO, is our gain in Jacksonville.

Im just saying I leave football to the football experts. As fans we will always have our opinons about what we want the team to do, or how they should do it. Personally, I just leave it to the people who are getting paid to the job. Otherwise, we just end up on MetroJacksonville debating about what we want the team to do, and in the grand scheme of things if wont change the decisions the organization makes 

Improvement is definately needed and expected. Khan even said himseelf that  you can not blame one man for a teams performance, and he was speaking of Gene Smith. We all know there are alot of things that contributed to our poor play last year and it wasnt just the players.

FYi- Where the hell do you work that you can afford 4500.00 a year? Are yall hiring? LOL I cant afford more than my $500.00 season tickets. But I do have great seats though 

[kells904]

Jones and Snyder have the #1 and #2 valuations of NFL teams. The Cowboys are worth close to 2 billion bucks with the Patriots, Giants and Jets close behind. These guys know how to build a market for their teams, none of the top 5 teams are every mentioned in "moving to a new city", so I think Khan will be a lot more like Jones and Snyder to help grow and expand the Jaguar product. This is a business first and foremost.

I don't think we can make a comparison if we're going to talk team "valuation".  Like I said, it doesn't matter how bad either the Cowboys or Redskins are; they're franchises that have been around for several decades.  Jones and Snyder really don't have to do anything to sell tickets.  As teams steeped in decades of tradition and past glory, they have had several generations of kids born into the fan base.  As for us?  One generation.

And now that I'm thinking about it, I'd say some of the reasons Jacksonville's always mentioned as moving--Khan referred to it as 'Moveophobia'--has nothing to do with the Jaguars organization itself.  It's sportswriters and ESPN types who've decided that Jacksonville sucks as a city and don't really care to be convinced otherwise.  They're partially right, because not capitalizing on having hosted a Super Bowl, or properly using BJP funds to make downtown resemble an actual thriving city were EPIC failures.  But to say we can't support a team...most of us know that's crap.  There are teams much older than ours that can't sell out their stadiums, but the media doesn't hate those cities.

I do think Khan will bring a new level of prestige that you're looking for, mtrain.  He seems candid to the point that sometimes seems a little brutal.  I like and respect that.