Hemming Park Problem

[BridgeTroll]

I'm game.  I can see the park from my office window. 

I'm on Adams, so it's an easy walk for me too

I am up for it  but I would most likely need one days notice.

Me also... Are the 'dog vendors still at opposite corners of the park?

[John P]

I agree but introducing regular programming and making it more appealing to everyone like lakelander said is a good idea also. The problem is there is no kind of regular programing that can duplicate the use of the park a la Art walk. Thats when homeless leave because its filled with vendors and patrons. The farmers market just moved from hemming plaza to the Landing last year to get more customers. Small programming wont make homeless leave or blend in. Only large programming. Long term the answer is more use and crack down on homeless. Greater restrictions and more rules for them. If youre not in work traing and rehab and if you dont pass drug alcohol tests then you dont get meals or beds. Homeless who dont want to change or follow these reasonable rules will leave town. 1 way bus tickets are a good idea too. Either Jax is serious about fixing the issue or not. Enough wishy washy half way measures.

Hope you are reading this Ron Chamblin.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Take Lake's theory and put it in perspective:

SJTC - there's a water feature (park) in the middle surrounded by stores, has a kiosk in the middle and anytime you go there - lot's of positive activity going on.

In front of Dicks, there are two fake, grassy areas bordered by masonry walls and opening out to a parking lot and into Dick's SG - no one hangs out there.  Why?  There's no activity around it to bring you in. 

As it's been told time and time again on this site - the grassy area in front of Dicks is a pass-thru, while the koi pond is more of a destination.  Where would you rather go? 

If you apply it towards Hemming, add a kiosk in the middle, fully surround it with stores/coffee shops/restaurants you get the fish pond.  If you leave it as is, you have the area in front of Dicks.

[thelakelander]

There are plenty of services to help the Homeless. The problem IS the Homeless. As odd as it may sound, so many of them like the independence of living on the streets, are addicted to drugs/alcohol, and are perfectly fine with panhandling around for their next fix. It's not our responsibility to change what they want to do with their lives. You can't help someone that won't help themselves. This further complicates the issue.

I agree but introducing regular programming and making it more appealing to everyone like lakelander said is a good idea also. The problem is there is no kind of regular programing that can duplicate the use of the park a la Art walk. Thats when homeless leave because its filled with vendors and patrons. The farmers market just moved from hemming plaza to the Landing last year to get more customers. Small programming wont make homeless leave or blend in. Only large programming. Long term the answer is more use and crack down on homeless. Greater restrictions and more rules for them. If youre not in work traing and rehab and if you dont pass drug alcohol tests then you dont get meals or beds. Homeless who dont want to change or follow these reasonable rules will leave town. 1 way bus tickets are a good idea too. Either Jax is serious about fixing the issue or not. Enough wishy washy half way measures.

Hope you are reading this Ron Chamblin.

Programming will work but programming is much more than special events.  You need a series of little things that draw a diverse range of people through the space throughout the day.  Think accessible restrooms, shops that spill out into the space, food truck vendors, retail kiosks, bike stations, etc, perhaps a children's playground which would encourage field trips to the library to include picnics in the park.  You then anchor these everyday little steps with a routine network of larger events like Art Walk, Jazz Fest, etc.  So in short, there is no single short term solution.  There are a lot of little simple things that can be done to move the environment/atmosphere forward but continuing to remove amenities such as benches and tables isn't one of them.

[thelakelander]

Take Lake's theory and put it in perspective:

SJTC - there's a water feature (park) in the middle surrounded by stores, has a kiosk in the middle and anytime you go there - lot's of positive activity going on.

In front of Dicks, there are two fake, grassy areas bordered by masonry walls and opening out to a parking lot and into Dick's SG - no one hangs out there.  Why?  There's no activity around it to bring you in. 

As it's been told time and time again on this site - the grassy area in front of Dicks is a pass-thru, while the koi pond is more of a destination.  Where would you rather go? 

If you apply it towards Hemming, add a kiosk in the middle, fully surround it with stores/coffee shops/restaurants you get the fish pond.  If you leave it as is, you have the area in front of Dicks.

Bingo.  Give people a reason to be there and most of the problems associated with the space will resolve themselves naturally.  It worked that way in Detroit, St. Louis, Orlando and a host of other communities that have recently upgraded public spaces within their downtown areas.  There's no reason to believe it can't work in Jacksonville.

[cline]

I'm sure if Hemming was surrounded by as many stores and restaurants as the SJTC there would all kinds of activity there.  Kiosk or no kiosk.  All someone needs to do is make a quick call to Maggiano's and convince them to move to downtown.  Seeing as though they're hurting for business so badly at the SJTC, I'm sure they'll be more than willing.

[thelakelander]

Shouldn't this public space across from Hemming be beaming with activity and yuppies?  After all, there's no vagrants hanging out there.  Nevertheless, it still sits empty.  What's the solution for this one?  Remove the areas designed for seating?

[tufsu1]

here's an article about how San Fran has removed benches to fight homelessness...and the backlash it has generated

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/29/us/in-san-francisco-a-push-for-public-benches.html?_r=2&smid=tw-nytimes&seid=auto

[tufsu1]

and here's another....this one puts placemaking into computer terminlogy...hardware being the physical space and software being the activities/programming of that space

http://www.urbanophile.com/2012/01/31/the-software-of-placemaking-by-rod-stevens/

[comncense]

I like the idea of adding storefronts to the areas surrounding Hemming Plaza, but aside from the library and the museum, aren't most of the other buildings government and 'closed by 5pm' stores? I guess what I'm asking is, where would we add in the retail, restaurants...etc even if we wanted to?

On a side note, the "Make a Scene Downtown" after work networking events were good while they lasted. A couple of times they had them in Hemming Plaza.

[thelakelander]

Potential spots include the Seminole Club, former Shelby's Coffee, and Snyder Memorial. Long term, the city needs to transition some of its ground level frontage in city hall and city hall annex back to retail/dining, etc. Other opportunities include allowing mobile food trucks, adding kiosks, vendors, or a structure in the park itself.

[thelakelander]

Btw, considering the size of offices in the Ed Ball Building and the fact that hundreds of jobs have/are/will be eliminated, there should be city office space reduction opportunities.

[ThugBilt]

Lets cut the bs. The bottom line is that the park is overrun by homeless people and "regular" people dont want to spend their free time hanging out with homeless people. Call it whatever you like. If you want to attract "regular" citizens to the park without any new programming, attractions or whatever then you have to get rid of the huge group of homeless people that everyone else doesnt want to be around. If 75 homeless people camped out on 1 strech of the riverwalk all day guess what? People wouldnt want to use that part of the riverwalk either. The unwashed, unrefined and possibly crazy make people uncomfortable. That's the way it is. Lakelander, you are barking up the wrong tree with the public restrooms. The alley smells like urine because its a quick and easy. Last time I checked all the shelters have bathroom access and the small daycenters that are already there do too. Access to bathrooms isnt the problem its the mental health of people that would rather take a dump on the sidewalk than in the woods or a public bathroom. You can thank Reagan in the 80s for emptying out our mental hospitals. Those people live in shelters now.

That's exactly what I'm saying.  Strip away all these straw man distractions and that's what you get.  And yes, I advocate arresting people who violate city ordinances, over and over if necessary.  Eventually it'll get old and the behavior will stop. 

[thelakelander]

Is this about clearing the homeless or making the park more vibrant? Removing seats and benches solves neither.

[Bridges]

That's exactly what I'm saying.  Strip away all these straw man distractions and that's what you get.  And yes, I advocate arresting people who violate city ordinances, over and over if necessary.  Eventually it'll get old and the behavior will stop. 

So criminalize homelessness>arrest homeless>put in jail>release next day back on streets in same situation>arrested for being homeless>put in jail>released back on streets in same situation>arrested for being homeless>rinse repeat.

It's time we stop only seeing 1 tree in front of us.  There is a forest of ideas to try.  Ideas we know have worked other places. 

The homeless situation is a whole other issue that needs to be addressed in a much deeper way.  It's more than Hemming Plaza, and if you focus all your energy and effort on just the homeless in Hemming Plaza then you haven't done anything to make people go to the plaza, and you haven't done anything to deal with the homeless.


(Note: I use homeless as the term, despite the fact that a survey concluded the majority weren't homeless)