Inside 113 E. 3rd St.

[ChriswUfGator]

is this the same bill moates that chopped up all the houses, turned them into rooming houses, and packed them full of prostitutes and drug dealers? The same bill moates that ran drugs through those houses and then let them all fall apart? The same bill moates that got ran out ten years ago for all the trouble he caused? good riddance! By the way I offered to buy that house and the one next to it three years ago just to get him completely out of springfield but he wasnt interested in selling.

Yep.  Same POS.

Well clearly the solution is to punish the rest of us by destroying another historic structure.

Great insight, guys. Very helpful.

Perhaps you should not read more into a statement than is there.  The statement went to the character of the owner, and did not involve the structure or it's future.  My verification of JohnP's question was intended to enlighten some about whom they are dealing with.  I believe that IS a valuble insight.  I (and I'm sure whoever JohnP is) wish you all the best in this endeavor.  But ignoring facts does no one any good.

I only read what you wrote. If that's an issue, it seems the problem doesn't sit with me.

What the owner did two decades ago has nothing to do with whether the structure should be demolished today.

Owners come and go.

[NotNow]

 

[sheclown]

You have to ask yourself,  just who is the POS?  The man who wants to mothball and save his house, or the woman who bought it, campaigned to put it on the formal track, and then sold it back to him?

[PeeJayEss]

is this the same bill moates that chopped up all the houses, turned them into rooming houses, and packed them full of prostitutes and drug dealers? The same bill moates that ran drugs through those houses and then let them all fall apart? The same bill moates that got ran out ten years ago for all the trouble he caused? good riddance! By the way I offered to buy that house and the one next to it three years ago just to get him completely out of springfield but he wasnt interested in selling.

Yep.  Same POS.

Well clearly the solution is to punish the rest of us by destroying another historic structure.

Great insight, guys. Very helpful.

Perhaps you should not read more into a statement than is there.  The statement went to the character of the owner, and did not involve the structure or it's future.  My verification of JohnP's question was intended to enlighten some about whom they are dealing with.  I believe that IS a valuble insight.  I (and I'm sure whoever JohnP is) wish you all the best in this endeavor.  But ignoring facts does no one any good.

I only read what you wrote.

Clearly not. Doesn't appear that John P or Notnow said anything advocating for "destroying another historic structure," explicitly or implicitly.

You have to ask yourself,  just who is the POS?  The man who wants to mothball and save his house, or the woman who bought it, campaigned to put it on the formal track, and then sold it back to him?

Perhaps neither. Maybe both.

[ChriswUfGator]

is this the same bill moates that chopped up all the houses, turned them into rooming houses, and packed them full of prostitutes and drug dealers? The same bill moates that ran drugs through those houses and then let them all fall apart? The same bill moates that got ran out ten years ago for all the trouble he caused? good riddance! By the way I offered to buy that house and the one next to it three years ago just to get him completely out of springfield but he wasnt interested in selling.

Yep.  Same POS.

Well clearly the solution is to punish the rest of us by destroying another historic structure.

Great insight, guys. Very helpful.

Perhaps you should not read more into a statement than is there.  The statement went to the character of the owner, and did not involve the structure or it's future.  My verification of JohnP's question was intended to enlighten some about whom they are dealing with.  I believe that IS a valuble insight.  I (and I'm sure whoever JohnP is) wish you all the best in this endeavor.  But ignoring facts does no one any good.

I only read what you wrote.

Clearly not. Doesn't appear that John P or Notnow said anything advocating for "destroying another historic structure," explicitly or implicitly.

You have to ask yourself,  just who is the POS?  The man who wants to mothball and save his house, or the woman who bought it, campaigned to put it on the formal track, and then sold it back to him?

Perhaps neither. Maybe both.

Oh hogwash. They wrote what they wrote, it's all there in black and what.

People can read for themselves, I'm not sure what you're expecting to accomplish with your inaccurate editorializing.

[sheclown]

Florida Times Union, January 24th 1984
By Marlene Sokol, Staff Writer
Springfield residents fighting to save their neighorhood’s historic buildings from demolition and decay, seem to have lost the latest battle: an attempt to save the 29, 2nd Street East, home of former Mayor Frank C. Whitehead. The turn-of-the-century, prairie-style home probably will be demolished tomorrow, wrecker Gene Burkhalter said yesterday. Members of Springfield Preservation and Restoration (SPAR) learned last week that the house was to be razed to make room for an automotive parts warehouse.
The Jacksonville Historic Landmarks Commission told SPAR members that they had no legal right to protect the house and that the property was zoned for commercial use. Burkhalter gave the group four days to find someone willing to pay $7,500 -- income he hoped to earn by selling parts of the house for salvage -- and move the house within 30 days.
SPAR members Cindy Miles and Marcy McCann said they have shown the house to several potential movers over the weekend, but no one has agreed to take it off Burkhalter’s hands. “There was one group of people who were interested, but they could not get that kind of money together fast enough.”
Though SPAR members are not blaming Burkhalter or William Catlin, the automotive dealer who now owns the property, the members are considering measures to prevent such demolitions in the future. One, Ms. Miles said, would be to ask the city’s Building and Zoning Division -- which issues demolition permits -- to notify the Jacksonville Landmarks Commmission when they receive a request to raze a historic building.
But Burkhalter, a former member of the landmarks commission, said the process should begin much earlier. “These people had months and months to worry about this house, all the time it was boarded up” Burkhalter said. “The time to look for an owner and a mover was months ago, not this late in the process. Ms Miles said cushioning historic buildings in advance from possible demolition would be difficult, because most are privately owned and change hands frequently. “Because you’re dealing with private property and private property rights, you really can’t do anything” she said.
Prospects look dim for the Second Street house, Ms. Miles said, even with the 24 hour grace period. “but we can always hope,” she said.
The three photographs above tell the final story. Someone did step up: Mr. Billy Motes. The topmost photo shows the house in its heyday, beautifully standing at 2nd East and Main, facing downtown. The middle one, taken by Jim Gentile, shows the house on the move, as it turned off of 2nd onto Hubbard - the Fletcher House is on the left. The bottom photo shows the house as it is today. We do not know why but Mr. Motes had the house put backwards on the lot. The front of the house now faces inward or north and the back wall is on 3rd street. Its new address is 1311 Hubbard.

reprinted from the SHEC newsletter September 2011

Just sayin'

[aubureck]

Wow thats an interesting tidbit of history.  I never realized that house was backwards on the lot until just now when I looked it up on Google Street View...how could I have missed it.

[Debbie Thompson]

I find it interesting the commissioners keep saying "it's hard without a real report" and Elaine Lancaster saying they didn't do a structural report on any of the houses she's bringing that day, but somehow she is able to say the wall is bulging and the house may fall down.  Even though if you ask her...and I did...personally...at a SPAR meeting...if she and those at MCCD are structural engineers, and she said no.

[sheclown]

I love it when ChrisGator says "oh hogwash!" 

[Demosthenes]

I know a few commercial structures have had roofs fall in, but aside from the Walnut Street ruins (no roof) that collapsed on to the sidewalk during the 2004 Hurricane season, has Springfield ever had a house randomly fall over?

[PeeJayEss]

Oh hogwash. They wrote what they wrote, it's all there in black and what.

People can read for themselves, I'm not sure what you're expecting to accomplish with your inaccurate editorializing.

LOL.

Wow thats an interesting tidbit of history.  I never realized that house was backwards on the lot until just now when I looked it up on Google Street View...how could I have missed it.

So its the big brick one next door? They moved that thing?!? Whew! Any reason they put it backwards? Kris Kross wasn't even popular yet.

[strider]

My understanding has been that the owner wanted it turned around but the moving company did not or could not do it for some reason so there is sits.

Still much better than just tearing the thing down. It is a great house that is still here and in decent shape because t has been used since it got moved.

Think of the fact that if code had not gotten so uppity and actually tried to help people, 113/115 E 3rd would also be in much better shape today.

[aubureck]

I realized a couple of days ago the SHEC Sampler from Sep 2011 had photos of the house in its original location on 2nd and Main, of it in motion, and in its present location...absolutely amazing!

[Timkin]

I know a few commercial structures have had roofs fall in, but aside from the Walnut Street ruins (no roof) that collapsed on to the sidewalk during the 2004 Hurricane season, has Springfield ever had a house randomly fall over?

Only with the help of a bulldozer

[Springfielder]

I know a few commercial structures have had roofs fall in, but aside from the Walnut Street ruins (no roof) that collapsed on to the sidewalk during the 2004 Hurricane season, has Springfield ever had a house randomly fall over?

As Timkin said, only with the help of a bulldozer. I've lived here for well over 10 years and have never heard of or learned of any structure collapsing. No house has ever fallen down, even the ones that code claims to be a public safety issue.

The issue with the building you referenced on Walnut street, (which was at the corner of 6th and Walnut) the old linen laundry place...it had no roof for many, many years (fire took care of that) there were massive cracks in the remainder of what was left of the outer brick walls that had huge steel frame windows. The cracks were never repaired, the walls were never stabilized until after the strong wind/rain caused the collapse of the wall along Walnut street. It was only after that happened, that the owner decided to make an effort to stabilize the wall along 6th street. In fact, he had large metal poles placed and the sidewalks closed/fenced and it remained like that for many months. Then he had someone placing concrete blocks as a replacement to the wall that had fallen. Of course, there was no permit, and the city stopped the work which was never completed. Eventually the fencing was removed, but the supports remained in place, until the city finally decided to take it all down.