The Jacksonville Jaguars

[fsujax]

Nice win. Winning feels good. Go Jags.

[duvaldude08]

Wow did anyone ready Gene's column today in the TU? He made a comment about empty seats. And shockingly, the comments on the TU were actually critzing Gene for making the comment. I actually sent him a nice/enast email last week about some of the comments he makes. For a 3-9 team playing in nasty weather, the stadium was rather full. Alot of people, including myself, stayed in yesterday. (but by half time I regretted it. LOL)

[fsujax]

I just read that article, the comments are great!

[KenFSU]

It wouldn't have been a great crowd in ideal conditions, but considering we just had a disastrous, gut-wrenching home game 6 days ago and the weather was awful, I don't think it was all that bad.

Speaking of attendance figures, I chanced upon this old Ask Vic column and found some good info in it on our ticket sales over the years:

Jodi from Jacksonville
When did ticket sales for the Jaguars start their big decline? Does it coincide with the economy or were ticket sales declining before that and Weaver just bailed us out too much in the past?

Vic: There was a bothersome decline as early as year two, from an average of 69,352 per home game in 1995 to 66,692 in ’96, but home attendance spiked to all-time highs in ’97 (69,693) and ’98 (70,184). What followed in ’99, shockingly in what remains the best season in franchise history, was the first significant and sustained move downward. Attendance fell by nearly 3,000 a game in the 14-2 ’99 season, and that triggered four lean years at the gate that would follow. From an average of 60,314 per home game in 2000, attendance fell to a low of 56,213 in 2003. The fortunes were radically reversed in 2004. Buoyed by the largest single-game attendance in Jaguars history, 76,877 for a Sunday night game against the Steelers, the Jaguars averaged 69,433 per home game in ’04. Attendance figures looked great but stadium size resulted in six TV blackouts that year. Only the games against the Colts (73,114) and the Steelers were shown on local TV, and the Jaguars knew it was time to cover some seats. Ten thousand seats were covered for the 2005 season and the reduction in stadium size produced a small waiting list of prospective season-ticket buyers. All home games were shown on local TV in ’05 and ’06 but, shockingly, blackouts returned in ’07, which produced the Jaguars’ first postseason victory since the ’99 season. Three games, including the opener, were blacked out in ’07. The Jaguars avoided blackouts in ’08, but that was largely the result of Wayne Weaver’s largesse. The big crash came last season, as all but one game were blacked out and the average attendance per home game fell to 49,652. Was the economy to blame? Absolutely. What, however, are we to make of some of those other declines? Frankly, it’s difficult to use Jaguars attendance figures to make a connection between winning and sellouts. In my opinion, the Jacksonville football fan is moody. There’s no other way to explain the fans’ ticket-buying history. Attendance declined in two very good years, ’99 and ’07, yet, it shot up in ’04 following one of the worst seasons in franchise history. Was it Byron Leftwich that caused attendance to spike in ’04? I doubt it, since he was the guy everyone blamed when attendance fell. Make your own conclusions."

[Wacca Pilatka]

Wow did anyone ready Gene's column today in the TU? He made a comment about empty seats. And shockingly, the comments on the TU were actually critzing Gene for making the comment. I actually sent him a nice/enast email last week about some of the comments he makes. For a 3-9 team playing in nasty weather, the stadium was rather full. Alot of people, including myself, stayed in yesterday. (but by half time I regretted it. LOL)

We have to do something to change the media culture in this city.  The TU and the radio stations have helped to make it trendy to knock the Jaguars.  I don't mean criticizing them deservedly when they don't play well - I mean they have made it cool to pick on the hometown team, sensationalized past off-field incidents (to the extent that some in Jax still call our very high character team the "Thuguars"), and stoked the fires of the group of Florida fans who want their team to be the only game in town and worship someone who contributes nothing back to his hometown.

[Wacca Pilatka]

It wouldn't have been a great crowd in ideal conditions, but considering we just had a disastrous, gut-wrenching home game 6 days ago and the weather was awful, I don't think it was all that bad.

Speaking of attendance figures, I chanced upon this old Ask Vic column and found some good info in it on our ticket sales over the years:

Jodi from Jacksonville
When did ticket sales for the Jaguars start their big decline? Does it coincide with the economy or were ticket sales declining before that and Weaver just bailed us out too much in the past?

Vic: There was a bothersome decline as early as year two, from an average of 69,352 per home game in 1995 to 66,692 in ’96, but home attendance spiked to all-time highs in ’97 (69,693) and ’98 (70,184). What followed in ’99, shockingly in what remains the best season in franchise history, was the first significant and sustained move downward. Attendance fell by nearly 3,000 a game in the 14-2 ’99 season, and that triggered four lean years at the gate that would follow. From an average of 60,314 per home game in 2000, attendance fell to a low of 56,213 in 2003. The fortunes were radically reversed in 2004. Buoyed by the largest single-game attendance in Jaguars history, 76,877 for a Sunday night game against the Steelers, the Jaguars averaged 69,433 per home game in ’04. Attendance figures looked great but stadium size resulted in six TV blackouts that year. Only the games against the Colts (73,114) and the Steelers were shown on local TV, and the Jaguars knew it was time to cover some seats. Ten thousand seats were covered for the 2005 season and the reduction in stadium size produced a small waiting list of prospective season-ticket buyers. All home games were shown on local TV in ’05 and ’06 but, shockingly, blackouts returned in ’07, which produced the Jaguars’ first postseason victory since the ’99 season. Three games, including the opener, were blacked out in ’07. The Jaguars avoided blackouts in ’08, but that was largely the result of Wayne Weaver’s largesse. The big crash came last season, as all but one game were blacked out and the average attendance per home game fell to 49,652. Was the economy to blame? Absolutely. What, however, are we to make of some of those other declines? Frankly, it’s difficult to use Jaguars attendance figures to make a connection between winning and sellouts. In my opinion, the Jacksonville football fan is moody. There’s no other way to explain the fans’ ticket-buying history. Attendance declined in two very good years, ’99 and ’07, yet, it shot up in ’04 following one of the worst seasons in franchise history. Was it Byron Leftwich that caused attendance to spike in ’04? I doubt it, since he was the guy everyone blamed when attendance fell. Make your own conclusions."

I was just thinking this morning about our ticket sales situation now vs. 2007.  In 2007 we had three blackouts, but we sold 61,000, 64,000, and 64,000 tickets to those three games.  I believe we had the club sections fuller at that time and just didn't move all of the general bowl tickets.  As damaging as blackouts are to Jacksonville's national image, we were probably in a better ticket revenue position in 2007 than we have been in the no-blackout 2010 and 2011 seasons.

Also, much as I love Vic I don't think he is comparing apples to apples because the stats he cites for 1995-99 are for physical attendance, not total tickets distributed.  E.g., in 1996 every game was a literal sellout but a few games had less than stellar attendance (most notably the Cincinnati game in the downpour).  The 2000's stats are for total tickets distributed because that's how every team but the Steelers reports it anymore.  He's also wrong about the 2007 opener; it was sold out.  The 2007 blackouts were the Falcons, Bills, and Texans games.

[Tacachale]

I have to disagree with old Vic that it's hard to see a connection between winning and ticket sales. A consistently good team will move tickets; a single good season won't have a big effect, especially when it comes as a rare break to year after year of middle-of-the-league mediocrity or worse, and that's what's happening here. Additionally, since 2000 (ie, the majority of our existence), we've had more absolutely abominable seasons than we've had playoffs appearances, so by his logic that should also have an effect. Honestly, I think our attendance figures show that our fanbase is pretty damn exited and optimistic about our perennially disappointing Jaguars.

[KenFSU]

What's crazy to think about when looking at these numbers (which are from 2010, obviously) is that if Jacksonville had a football stadium properly scaled to the market size (maybe 58,000 to 61,000 seats), instead of a stadium designed for max capacity one time per year, attendance may have never been the issue that is has been (except in 2009). 60,000 seats might actually produce a sense of scarcity for Jaguars tickets. Is it overly simplistic to suggest that the lion's share of Jaguars attendance woes over the years could be reduced down to the simple fact that the stadium is just too damn big for the market?

[tufsu1]

I was there yesterday and thought attendance was pathetic....really folks, the weather wasn't bad until midway through the third quarter!

as to stadium size, ideally our stadium would be in the 60,000-65,000 seat range....but let's be honest...the real problem here is that the ticket prices are too cheap by NFL standards....once attendance stabilizes, ticket prices will be raised...way before they remove the tarps.

[duvaldude08]

I was there yesterday and thought attendance was pathetic....really folks, the weather wasn't bad until midway through the third quarter!

as to stadium size, ideally our stadium would be in the 60,000-65,000 seat range....but let's be honest...the real problem here is that the ticket prices are too cheap by NFL standards....once attendance stabilizes, ticket prices will be raised...way before they remove the tarps.

Well the weather coupled with a MNF blow out was not quite a recipe for people coming to the game. I personally stayed because I could not be in that weather like that. I not only sing in a group I also do customer service at my job so I could not afford to get sick and lose my voice.

[comncense]

The stadium really didn't look to be empty to me until halftime. But you know people always rush to either the bathroom, grab their last drinks or grab food from the concession stands. Once the 3rd quarter started, the rain started to come down, not to mention the fact that it was cold by you Floridian's definition. The inside area of the "Bud Light Party Zone" was pretty much elbow to elbow from that point on. I would imagine the Touchdown Club area would be somewhat the same way. So for people looking out into the stands midway thru halftime and the 3rd quarter and on, it definitely looked sparse.

[Wacca Pilatka]

Well the weather coupled with a MNF blow out was not quite a recipe for people coming to the game. I personally stayed because I could not be in that weather like that. I not only sing in a group I also do customer service at my job so I could not afford to get sick and lose my voice.

If you don't mind my asking, what group?

[KenFSU]

The real problem here is that the ticket prices are too cheap by NFL standards....once attendance stabilizes, ticket prices will be raised...way before they remove the tarps.

Wouldn't basic economics suggest though that the tickets are actually overpriced for this specific market? I'm not saying the Jags need to rush out and lower ticket prices, but when quantity supplied far outweighs quantity demanded at the current asking price, raising ticket prices will only further lower demand. I do agree though that increased ticket prices should be in the team's list of 5 year goals, but only if there is an increase in demand to warrant it.

[duvaldude08]

Well the weather coupled with a MNF blow out was not quite a recipe for people coming to the game. I personally stayed because I could not be in that weather like that. I not only sing in a group I also do customer service at my job so I could not afford to get sick and lose my voice.

If you don't mind my asking, what group?

Ahhhhh touch you nose Wakka, touch your nose  But seriously its a gospel group

[Tacachale]

What's crazy to think about when looking at these numbers (which are from 2010, obviously) is that if Jacksonville had a football stadium properly scaled to the market size (maybe 58,000 to 61,000 seats), instead of a stadium designed for max capacity one time per year, attendance may have never been the issue that is has been (except in 2009). 60,000 seats might actually produce a sense of scarcity for Jaguars tickets. Is it overly simplistic to suggest that the lion's share of Jaguars attendance woes over the years could be reduced down to the simple fact that the stadium is just too damn big for the market?

The stadium being so big compared to the market size is a well known issue. But taking your argument further you could question whether a facility that is only used 12 times a year is a worthwhile investment to begin with.