What to do about Hemming Plaza?

[fieldafm]

Fieldafm, I had the same reaction to Redmond's suggestion that the Armory become a day care center. 

Whose council district is the armory in?  Redmond's or Gaffney's?

Dist 7, Gaffney

[sheclown]

The best thing you can do for Hemming Plaza is to eat your lunch there.  Use it or lose it.

[fieldafm]

The best thing you can do for Hemming Plaza is to eat your lunch there.  Use it or lose it.

That made more sense than any comments made in that meeting.

[Ralph W]

Would it be too much trouble to circulate a questionnaire to all people employed in the vicinity of Hemming Plaza and ask where they eat lunch and why? A few more questions could also reveal if people even want to visit the Plaza and what they would expect if they did.

I'm pretty sure the negative reactions to homeless and panhandlers is from relatively few and among those would be merchants and council members knee jerking in response. I could be entirely mistaken but let's ask the questions to more than just a few.

I'll start: When I worked downtown many, many years ago I would eat lunch in the May Cohens restaurant or at my desk with a brown bag or I would walk over a couple of blocks to a favorite Italian restaurant which, of course, is long gone. Now, when I have to go downtown, I have a destination and a purpose and that does not include dropping in to visit the Plaza. At the pace business runs these days it's a wonder that people working downtown even have time for lunch,  let alone walking to the Plaza to eat it.

Let's expand the questionnaire to 2-3 or even 6 blocks away from Hemming Plaza. Do those people even know there is a Hemming Plaza? Why would they bother to go there? Why would they care? A couple of blocks over and they have their own little world and right in their front yard is the epicenter of the homeless and needy. There, on a daily basis, are the lines waiting for help or handout. There are the unemployed, sitting or reclining on the ground with nowhere to go and nothing to do.

It's not just Hemming Plaza - it's the whole damn city. It's just more visible in the center because the uptight suits are there and it's the front yard of City Hall. What do you think is going to happen to the front yard of our wonderful new courthouse? Assuming it's finished off as a nice pedestrian friendly mall and not fenced off like our White House lawn, it will have the same problems as Hemming Plaza. Anybody notice that the Trinity Rescue center is closer to the courthouse than it is to city hall?  Will the courthouse employees brown bag it in their front yard?

[Tacachale]

I don't know. When I interned at city hall in 2004 and 2005, both I and my coworkers ate lunch in the plaza fairly regularly. The panhandling problem is worse now than it was then. Conceivably this has an effect on workers wanting to use the park.

[Miss Fixit]

This is about much more than downtown office workers eating lunch in Hemming Plaza.

I spend a lot of time downtown, both for business and personal reasons.  My kids and I bike or ride the skyway to Hemming Plaza to use the library.  We hang out at Chamblins, are MOCA members, eat at downtown restaurants on a regular basis.

I am not afraid of the people who congregate in and around Hemming Plaza (I'm not going to lump them all together as "homeless" because they are not all without homes), but some of them are unpleasant, to say the least.   I don't like the panhandling or the littering.  I don't like the fact that there's never anywhere for my family to sit in the park because all of the seats and tables are always taken.  The "grand" reading room in the library smells so bad that we hold our breath as we pass through, and we don't feel comfortable visiting the library restrooms because of the people using them as bath houses.

The crowds in and around Hemming Plaza do not keep me out of downtown, but I know for a fact that they keep many, many other people away.  I have personally heard dozens of my children's school friends' parents say that they would NEVER set foot in downtown except to chaperone field trips to the Florida Theater, or to attend the occasional dance recital at the FTU Center.  They specifically mention the panhandlers and the homeless when they say downtown isn't safe.  These are not people who live in Mandarin - these are people who live in Riverside, Avondale and San Marco, people who chose to live close to downtown and would certainly frequent businesses there if they felt comfortable doing so.

There's a real catch 22 here.   I completely agree that much of the "problem" with Hemming Plaza is one of perception.  Back when there were actually people working downtown, in the late '80s and early '90s, the vagrants were much less visible.

Downtown needs people who don't panhandle, who don't litter, and who don't smell so bad that others can't stand to be near them.  How do we get those people there?  Change their perceptions.  Provide more (not fewer) amenities.  Have weekday concerts in the park. Offer programs at the downtown library that aren't available anywhere else.  Get rid of parking meters.

We also need to provide services for the homeless, mentally ill, and those with drug and alcohol problems in areas other than downtown.  I'm not saying we should move all of these services out of downtown but they should be spread across all parts of Duval County, not just concentrated in one small area.

[vicupstate]

This is about much more than downtown office workers eating lunch in Hemming Plaza.

I spend a lot of time downtown, both for business and personal reasons.  My kids and I bike or ride the skyway to Hemming Plaza to use the library.  We hang out at Chamblins, are MOCA members, eat at downtown restaurants on a regular basis.

I am not afraid of the people who congregate in and around Hemming Plaza (I'm not going to lump them all together as "homeless" because they are not all without homes), but some of them are unpleasant, to say the least.   I don't like the panhandling or the littering.  I don't like the fact that there's never anywhere for my family to sit in the park because all of the seats and tables are always taken.  The "grand" reading room in the library smells so bad that we hold our breath as we pass through, and we don't feel comfortable visiting the library restrooms because of the people using them as bath houses.

The crowds in and around Hemming Plaza do not keep me out of downtown, but I know for a fact that they keep many, many other people away.  I have personally heard dozens of my children's school friends' parents say that they would NEVER set foot in downtown except to chaperone field trips to the Florida Theater, or to attend the occasional dance recital at the FTU Center.  They specifically mention the panhandlers and the homeless when they say downtown isn't safe.  These are not people who live in Mandarin - these are people who live in Riverside, Avondale and San Marco, people who chose to live close to downtown and would certainly frequent businesses there if they felt comfortable doing so.

There's a real catch 22 here.   I completely agree that much of the "problem" with Hemming Plaza is one of perception.  Back when there were actually people working downtown, in the late '80s and early '90s, the vagrants were much less visible.

Downtown needs people who don't panhandle, who don't litter, and who don't smell so bad that others can't stand to be near them.  How do we get those people there?  Change their perceptions.  Provide more (not fewer) amenities.  Have weekday concerts in the park. Offer programs at the downtown library that aren't available anywhere else.  Get rid of parking meters.

We also need to provide services for the homeless, mentally ill, and those with drug and alcohol problems in areas other than downtown.  I'm not saying we should move all of these services out of downtown but they should be spread across all parts of Duval County, not just concentrated in one small area.

+1,000

[AbelH]

This is what Hemming Park used to look like, MORE amenities than today and less homeless. 

If you look at this old picture, you'll notice a stark contrast between how the city used to value that park in comparison with the treatment it receives now. Notice the lush greenery, complete with flowers. Now walk through it today and notice the oak trees filled with dead branches and the shrubbery that has been dead for months but not trimmed. If the city maintained parks in San Marco and Avondale like it maintains the park in front of City Hall, citizens would be outraged.

It's astonishing that no one orders workers out to trim trees, bushes, maybe clear a path for the sun to shine down on Charlie Bennett's statue...

I'm not a big fan of the reflection ponds as they stand now, but I'm not the expert at this sort of thing. Would be interesting to perhaps have a design competition for the park.

[Timkin]

And I am no expert either, but if the project was mine to do, I would restore the park to its former days, add the greenery and the structures ...make it back to what it once was.  To me ,its nearly unrecognizable now.

[duvaldude08]

It was actually a park back then. It was changed to a "plaza" as a part of the downtown masterplan that was never finished. This city was backwards 40 years ago and still are now. Hopefully this trend reverse.

[Timkin]

Yeah....anything that WAS the Master plan , needs to be deep-sixed into file 13. 

[simms3]

The homeless in Jacksonville/Hemming Plaza are about as harmless as they come, and ironically they smell less than homeless I have experienced in other cities, including my own.  People don't eat in the park because there are no people downtown.

The problem some downtowns have is not with the homeless or the old timers, but rather the young hood elements who aren't homeless by any means but who do cause problems.  Downtown Atlanta has a very bad reputation that has only recently improved in the last 5 or so years, and that reputation has little to do with the thousands of homeless.  It is the crime associated with real hoodrats who come in.  Jacksonville luckily does not have that problem at all.  Downtown is so dead that not even the criminals care to come in and cause problems.  I think Woodruff Park is actually a very good example for Hemming Plaza...surrounded by government offices, filled with homeless, and a very central park.  The difference is that it is newish (replaced a very dense block of historic buildings), and people take an interst in it.  It is essentially the same thing as Hemming Plaza, but it is always humming with activity from all sorts of people 24/7.

Woodruff Park
Similarities
Central Library
Centralized Park
Lots of homeless
Surrounded by government offices
Some degree of stigma

Differences
35,000 nearby college students (GSU), many of whom use park
People who take pride in park
Replaced a block of high density (unlike Hemming which was always public space)
Always active at any given time
Surrounded on various sides by tourist attractions, hotels, 2 metro stations, and tons of other great parks

Photos taken Friday evening at 7:00 p.m., July 29, 2011 on a walk up from downtown to Midtown

View north towards park:


Active sidewalks at all times:




Monument commemorating the "5 Points" intersection where trolley tracks and an artesian water well serving the city once stood; establishes a sense of place (along with the iconic Coke luminary ad)


Notice the permanent vendor stands...these are all through downtown and are GREAT drivers of positive activity...I got a frozen Italian ice from one that day.  Also notice how similar it looks to Hemming!  The statue is locally called the Phoenix because it represents Atlanta's rebirth.


Public Toilets...these are fairly new and are quite high tech (self cleaning I think):


Woodruff is grass:


A group deciding to meet downtown at Woodruff.  The park's layout and features encourage this sort of activity.


Water features...just like Hemming!




These columns came from the department store the SOM Equitable building replaced, and it is an across the street mini-park near the library.  They are preserved and used very much like the Hearst Building columns at the FTU Center.




Bottom line:
Both parks are eerily similar, so why is one so much more successful?  Attitude towards the park plays a huge role, but so does the overall area.  Woodruff Park benefits from the downtown it is in.  People from outside of downtown have no reason to use the park, and so don't.

Hemming Plaza simply needs to benefit more from the surrounding area.  It does not need sweeping changes.  Downtown as a whole simply needs to improve and then Hemming Plaza will serve as a natural beneficiary.  One improvement that can be made downtown is greenspace.  Improve the Riverwalk, the Emerald Necklace to the north, and the Lavilla area to the west, and Hemming Park is sandwiched right in the middle.  More hotels and lower vacancy would also significantly help the park.

My father's company went on an office tour today to scout around for new space.  They looked at 8 buildings I think, including the BofA tower.  None of the spaces they viewed presented a river view sufficient/high enough for their wishes.  The views in BofA were either north or east, not sufficient.  I found all this ironic.  Here is a company that does not even want to look anywhere but south towards the river.  Had to do a little research on Montreal today, which of course is on the river, too.  It's most prestigious addresses are on the squares and plazas along the main commercial corridors.  People don't care to look out on the river, necessarily, but they do want to be in nice areas where the squares are.  If only Jacksonville could grow to that point.

[duvaldude08]

Downtown Atlanta has a very bad reputation that has only recently improved in the last 5 or so years, and that reputation has little to do with the thousands of homeless.  It is the crime associated with real hoodrats who come in.  Jacksonville luckily does not have that problem at all. 

Simms hit the nail on the head with that. My uncle owns a business in ATL (Uncle Ed's Gourmet Cookies#Shameless plug LOL). He moved there in the 90's. We had a family reunion up there in like 1995. I was like 12 my cousin was like 23. We walked DT ATL trying to find something to do late one night. REALLY late The next day people said " You were walking downtown ATL at night? Are you crazy?" Even going to visit my aunt would say, " put that money up, your not in Jacksonville! you gone get robbed. " LOL Downtown Jax problem is a lack of people, not a homeless problem. Every city has homeless people, but in most city the residents out number them so they fade into the background.

[Timkin]

The pics you shared are tremendous, Simms.   And I agree with your points.   Hemming could be a nice focal point in downtown. It was much more in the early 70's than now, and it came closer to resembling the picture of it from the previous post.

I remember Woolworth's , especially , at Christmas time.  I cannot recall every store that once faced Hemming , but I can remember it being much more beautiful then , than it is now.

[sheclown]

I spent some time at Hemming Plaza yesterday.  It was a beautiful day with a lot of folks having fun, chatting, playing chess or cards. 

My thoughts are:

1.) The lunch crowd does need to use the park to bring back some diversity.  Right now, the park is being used by one group of people more groups need to join in.  This requires being something of a pioneer spirit,  but if folks start eating lunch at the park, others will follow.  Initial discomfort gives way to great reward.  This is not for everybody, but it is some positive action that anybody could do and doesn't require government dollars or legislative effort. (This directly addresses perception of crime -- if it is diverse, it appears safe).

2.) While I don't believe that services presently downtown need to be moved (too expensive and disruptive), new services need to be spread throughout Jacksonville.  The only way to make it work is to break up the services into smaller (think library branches -- smaller places spread through all neighborhoods). Think HUD housing vouchers versus housing projects.

3.) The churches need to be empowered to deal with homelessness and needy individuals.  Ordinances which were passed which made feeding people and housing them at church locations a crime have hurt Jacksonville.

4.) There needs to be a indigent provision for IDs.  Charging $35 for an ID and not allowing people to work without one is cruel and counterproductive to say the least.