Mark & Amanda, Urban Farmers on FCN

[fsujax]

^^True dat! I would take Amanda's goats as neighbors any day over my neighbors grandkids!

[avs]

Thanks for all the love an support!  The Urban Ag Forum was a great success - more than twice the number of people we anticipated came out!  And a huge thank you to Council person Lori Boyer who came out educate herself first hand on all the issues. 

We will be breaking up all the volunteers into subcommittess to help draft some model legislation to go to the council people with. If you would like to volunteer for any of the subcommittees, send me an email and I will get you on the email list.  avsearle@gmail.com

[BridgeTroll]

AVS's neighbors have no issue with the goats and chickens.  She and her family take ezxcellent care of them.  They feed her family, and they are pets as well.  Well cared for animals are not an issue. I live in the area, but not next door to AVS. I would, however, have no issue with them if I did. I may even be lucky enough to buy a few extra fresh eggs from them.

I am sure AVS runs a clean operation and it is great they have neighbors who approve and do not take issue with the animals...  But for the sake of discussion... Lets change the circumstances slightly.

MY neighbor is not very good about cleaning up.  On hot days the stench of rotton eggs gently wafts onto my porch.  My neighbors are not very attentive about properly composting the chicken and goat manure.  While cooking on my barbecue the other day a swarm of flies came from my neighbors yard forcing me indoors.  I have tried to talk to them but am told to mind my own business.

[Jason]

I too am of the belief that we SHOULD be allowed to raise limited livestock in our own backyards. 

I'm not an "Urban Farmer" but I am growing a vegetable garden and raising chickens in my suburban backyard.  Suprisingly, the chickens (have 3 hens and a rooster) have been the most enjoyable!  My three boys love them to death and have a blast playing with them in the yard.  They're very tame and let you pet them and pick them up (both the chickens and the kids).  They keep my yard fertilized and free of bugs at the same time. 

I buy a 50 pound bag of feed for them about every 2 1/2 - 3 months which costs about $20.  They're amazingly cheap to maintain once you build them a nice coop.  I'm getting three eggs a day right now wich feeds my family 2 big breakfasts over the weekend and I'm able to share some of the fresh eggs with friends and neighbors.

If you do the math, the cost of the raising/maintaining the chickens is about equal or slightly less than the cost of buying an 18 pack of eggs every week for a year.  Plus I get 2 'extra' eggs a week since my three hens are all laying an egg a day.  Despite the cost, they are great pets and produce MUCH MUCH healthier eggs (and meat if you chose to tell the kids that they are eating their pet chicken for dinner!)

Also, based on the size of my veggie garden I'm able to plant enough to have fresh vegetables 3-5 months out of the year.  That is a massive savings over shopping at the farmers markets or grocery stores for that same time period.

[Debbie Thompson]

Bridge Troll, in the circumstance you discuss, they could be cited.  There would be rules about care of the animals.  And a well-maintained compost pile doesn't stink.  If it did, again, the neighbors could be cited.

[avs]

Bridgetroll, I think it is the same of someone not properly caring for a cat or dog, parakeet, parrot or whatever.  If hens are legalized and not properly cared for then the city should step in.  This is where I think permitting and permitting fees can help.

FYI: eggs last for about 3-4 months.  Eggs in grocery stores are about 3 months old when the consumer pruchases them.  If your neighbor has rotten eggs then they are many months old.

And Debbie is absolutley right, a compost bin that is properly cared for does not stink.  It sounds like they have to much nitrogen in there.  They need to add some leaves and "brown"/carbon stuff to offset it and get it properly balanced.  The Extension office offers lots of composting classes and information.

[BridgeTroll]

Bridgetroll, I think it is the same of someone not properly caring for a cat or dog, parakeet, parrot or whatever.  If hens are legalized and not properly cared for then the city should step in.  This is where I think permitting and permitting fees can help.

FYI: eggs last for about 3-4 months.  Eggs in grocery stores are about 3 months old when the consumer pruchases them.  If your neighbor has rotten eggs then they are many months old.

And Debbie is absolutley right, a compost bin that is properly cared for does not stink.  It sounds like they have to much nitrogen in there.  They need to add some leaves and "brown"/carbon stuff to offset it and get it properly balanced.  The Extension office offers lots of composting classes and information.

Thanks AVS.  Again... my hypothetical was only used for discussion.  I compost myself and have no issues... But am also well aware that improperly maintained "compost" piles can produce a foul stench.  You mention permitting and citing for improperly cared for urban farms.  I agree.  Hopefully the fees would pay for enforcement.

[avs]

Here is a link to the first part of the forum for anyone who wants to watch it

http://www.youtube.com/embed/iaQa1VQGtG4

[uptowngirl]

The city allows four or five dogs, that is a lot of useless feces and urine, not to mention that thousands of feral cats. Ever have feral cats spray your house or fence UGHH. Kids know how clean chickens are, when given the choice to pick up after the dogs or the chickens, the chickens win with the child every time!

The reality is the food you buy in the store, blessed by the FDA is NOT safer than the food you lovingly care for and grow at your own home. Here is a list of outbreaks compiled from the CDC who began tracking in the 1970's (notice the corporate farms):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foodborne_illness_outbreaks_in_the_United_States

The list is getting longer within each year.....

No one is advocating starting a pig farm downtown! But we should all be concerned about our food prospects...just look at this article:

http://radio.foxnews.com/2011/10/06/judge-americans-dont-have-right-to-eat-drink-what-the-want/

"Wisconsin judge has ruled that Americans do not  have a fundamental right to drink milk from their own cow, nor do they have a fundamental right to produce and consume the foods of their choice."

While raising chickens or goats may not be everyone's ideal of nirvana, and yes a lousy neighbor sucks all the way around- everyone should be concerned with the above ruling. What is next? Delmonte may not want you to grow your own peas, after all you live in the city and it is dirty and contaminated....

Oh wait, Delmonte and Monsanto already did ! H.R.875 - Food Safety Modernization Act of 2009 has pretty much made it against the law for you to grow some squash in your back yard and trade it with your neighbor for some of their okra. Now will the government come crashing into your house at 4AM to arrest you for doing this...probably not. But then again the state of WI did take families to court over drinking the milk of the cow they owned.....

Drive through El Paso lately? Check out the cattle holding corrals, knee deep in urine and feces.. Yummy! I guess that explains the huge list of meat illness outbreaks this year. In fact a huge outbreak E.coli at a Minnesota Malt O Meal plant was traced back to dairy farmers boots working part time at the plant. Commercial farms growing on a large scale have to use massive amounts of fertilizer and pesticides all draining into our water table. The FDA says that food is safe, I beg to differ! The back yard gardner can use all natural composted chicken manure along with homemade compost to grow their food with no added hormones or antibiotics because it is small scale and healthy for the animals and plants themselves. It tastes better, is healthier (for the food and the consumer of the same), and is the ultimate in recycling.

People have to stop thinking if they buy it at the grocery store it is safe and environmentally sound. It just plain isn't true. It isn't safe, it isn't healthy, and it unless it comes from the produce section it most likely has some type of corn product or byproduct hidden in it.

[avs]

Don't have a right to grow our own food - that is a basic freedom being taken away and put into the hands of corporations.  This is very scary.

[Debbie Thompson]

And speaking of corporate farms. I saw a new story about migrant workers, and how they are finding fewer jobs with the soybean farms now.  Why?  You won't believe it.  Soybeans have now been bred with ROUND UP weedkiller bred right in to them.  ROUND UP is part of the plant, so weeds don't grow in the field.  So every time you eat these soybeans, you are eating ROUND UP!!  And independent farmers who don't want to plant these beans are being run out of town on a rail.

I buy my butter unsalted because salted butter can be made with cream about to go bad, and the salt masks the off flavor.  On the way to Colorado from Oklahoma, we drove through Dodge City, Kansas.  You could smell the feed lots before you got to them.  Cows standing knee deep in cow doo, and being shot up with antibiotics so they wouldn't get sick from it.  Chickens who spend their entire lives in tiny cages inside.

As long as everything is well cared for, and the number of animals is limited to a reasonable number, I don't understand why there's an issue with it. 

Here's another interesting article from a recent Folio Weekly...Grey Area Gardens.   
http://www.folioweekly.com/documents/folio0920wkl007.pdf

[BridgeTroll]

http://radio.foxnews.com/2011/10/06/judge-americans-dont-have-right-to-eat-drink-what-the-want/

"Wisconsin judge has ruled that Americans do not  have a fundamental right to drink milk from their own cow, nor do they have a fundamental right to produce and consume the foods of their choice."

This appears to be a case of too much government regulation.

[Ralph W]

This also appears to be a case of the judge partaking of his own home made fermented cheese.

[Jason]

IMO, if you don't agree with Urban or Suburban farming (on a small scale) you should watch a documentary called "Food Inc.".

That'll get you thinking. 

[uptowngirl]

IMO, if you don't agree with Urban or Suburban farming (on a small scale) you should watch a documentary called "Food Inc.".

That'll get you thinking. 

+ 1000

And if you are really concerned about milk ....check out this picture, it is worth a thousand words posted here.

http://www.urbanfarmonline.com/sustainable-living/eat-local/raw-versus-pasteurized.aspx