Occupy Wall Street Movement: An American Spring

[BridgeTroll]

Once and for all... so I know who the hell you are talking about....

PLEASE define "uber rich".

[FayeforCure]

Once and for all... so I know who the hell you are talking about....

PLEASE define "uber rich".

I'm talking about the 1 Percenters who own 42% of our nation's wealth:



The rest of us are lured into servitude with promises that "we can do it too"

[BridgeTroll]

We can... they did.

[FayeforCure]

We can... they did.

Wow ok........lets look at the numbers over time...........

If that were true.........how come wealth has become ever more concentrated at the top?

You'd think that as more people join the 1 Percenters, there'd actually be a larger group of them rather than an ever smaller group of uber wealthy.

Many people are starting to wake up to this massive scam. The Scam of corporate socialism at the expense of the people.

That carrot you keep holding out for us...........that if we just work hard enough we might join their ranks............is no longer working. We're onto the scam that keeps us all in servitude.

[buckethead]

How does the chart change when looking at income vs wealth?

(truly curious, not a rhetorical question)

[FayeforCure]

How does the chart change when looking at income vs wealth?

(truly curious, not a rhetorical question)

I like your question...........but first I want to ask Republicans on this board if they think these people are just LAZY, when they complain about not being able to get out of their rut.

Why do we all feel so stuck?

We've all been sold a bill of goods, a myth, that's why!

A fake hope...........that if we just worked hard enough..........we can get there too.

"America is distinct in the extent to which inequality is inherited from generation to generation," Bowles says. "The kids of rich parents have a strong tendency to be rich, and the kids of poor parents are very, very likely to be poor. That's one of the things which I think Americans find most shocking. That's a huge discrepancy from what we think of as the land of opportunity."

http://www.youtube.com/v/BLVeKzBxSVg?

[FayeforCure]

How does the chart change when looking at income vs wealth?

(truly curious, not a rhetorical question)

I want to answer BT's "you can too" attitude and your question simultaneously with a chart from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO):



So while the middle class perished, or maybe "because the middle class perished," the uber-wealthy got even wealthier in camparison to us regular folks.

[simms3]

The same people who were "uber rich" a century ago are no longer so.  What's great about our country IS the fact that different people can and do become wealthy at different points in time, and yes, their heirs eventually sit on their butt and lose most of it (not always the case, but often).

The middle class IS suffering more than the wealthy and the poor.  This is a recent phenomena of the past few years.  The poor are actually doing just fine, and not doing anything.  The wealthy obviously are also doing just fine.  In fact, with education recent studies have shown that schools in wealthy districts perform well, and schools in poor districts receive all the public funding (of course they don't "do" well no matter how much we throw their way), and schools in the middle class districts do merely ok and get jipped on the funding.  The middle is shrinking pretty rapidly.  That's all true, but that's all new.

Also, I AM a Millennial, and so are ALL my friends.  I bet I'm more connected to them than you, despite my spite for these lazy bums in the park.  They hardly represent the full gamut of my generation.  I know people protesting.  My cousin is one of them!  They are mostly rich kids with some sort of political degree, many of whom went to top colleges and learned about fairness and equality and human behavior instead of how to work with numbers and how to work hard to achieve results, which are never guaranteed mind you.  They are tweeting anti-corporate memes, but hypocritically their Macs were created by a corporation who at one point a month ago was the most valuable corporation on Earth!  The hypocrisy astounds me.  Apple outsources.  Apple has used cheap labor and cheap parts.  Apple produces billionaires.  Apple is everything they are against, yet they don't even realize it!

If the media places "Big" in front of an industry and demonizes that industry at all, you can be sure these kids will go after it at some point, not realizing that like the Obama Admin, the media loves to pick targets to hate and skims over lots of other industries.  I don't hear these kids whining about GM and Chrysler, both of which received tens of billions, catered to the Unions, outsourced like a mother flipper, and became friends with corrupt Democrat politicians in Michigan.  Big Auto as I'm going to call it did everything Wall St has done and more in Michigan, and yet not a peep.  In fact, my 2011 Hyundai Sonata was built in the US using 50% US parts (it was built in the South in Alabama!).  It's probably more a US car than many GMs!  Unions with huge pensions and political allies did not build my car.

Also "Big" Pharma, which keeps me alive, is being literally held hostage by the FDA.  So are medical device companies.  This is something even Democrats and other federal regulatory agencies have publicly noted.  Our FDA is literally killing people right and left, meanwhile the rest of the world is picking up where we left off in pharmaceutical and medical device innovation, and we can't use anything developed in Europe now because of the damn FDA!

As far as jobs are concerned, there are 3 million jobs available at this moment!  This is of course excluding our military, which should always and had always been considered an option.  These kids could use a few years of military to learn about leadership and service.  I know that Continental Oil has TONS of super high paying jobs available in ND!  They just discovered as much oil as Saudi Arabia had at its peak in our own country in and around North Dakota!  Of course even with our government's cry to be oil independent, we wouldn't dare support that industry.  In fact they are all now being fined so heavily for one death of one non-endangered, migratory bird.  Meanwhile the wind industry, which receives billions in federal subsidies a year, is responsible for the deaths of thousands of birds, migratory, endangered, and all.  They get a pass.

Bottom line is these kids are hypocritical idiots in almost every way, and yes - they ARE lazy bums.  They should be ashamed of themselves.  Get a job and keep a job, anything, for a little while, pay your dues and earn your way through society first, and then if you happen to be wronged en masse, and you know exactly who wronged you and how, THEN complain.  Wall St did nothing that was not first regulated or signed off by your favorite politicians.  Most Americans can see at this point that our politicians are the biggest crooks and liers, but these kids have no experience and no gut feel and don't even see the obvious at this point.  They are SHEEP, even with their $200K college degrees!

[FayeforCure]

Bottom line is these kids are hypocritical idiots in almost every way, and yes - they ARE lazy bums.  They should be ashamed of themselves.  Get a job and keep a job, anything, for a little while, pay your dues and earn your way through society first, and then if you happen to be wronged en masse, and you know exactly who wronged you and how, THEN complain.  Wall St did nothing that was not first regulated or signed off by your favorite politicians.  Most Americans can see at this point that our politicians are the biggest crooks and liers, but these kids have no experience and no gut feel and don't even see the obvious at this point.  They are SHEEP, even with their $200K college degrees!

No, these young folks are well aware of the corporate socialism that the governmental crooks and liers are maintaining.

Why should they do as I did...........believe in the "hard work will get you there" ethos, only to find out it was a crock.

I'm glad they are no longer fooled by the carrot that is more the exception than the rule.

They have watched their parents struggle and get nowhere..........THAT is NOT the future they want for themselves.

You too haven't made it there either yet, and may never get there.............it still remains to be seen.

Certainly working for peanuts many, many hours a week, while laudable isn't exactly "making it"

Besides we can't all be engineers, doctors and lawyers!

That land of opportunity isn't real, if only .0000001 % of people feel they have any chance of "making it," despite their inhumane efforts.

[FayeforCure]

The same people who were "uber rich" a century ago are no longer so.  What's great about our country IS the fact that different people can and do become wealthy at different points in time, and yes, their heirs eventually sit on their butt and lose most of it (not always the case, but often).

I was looking for charts over time.........to show you how more of more today's wealthy got there..........not through hard work, but through inheritance. The famous rentier society is alive and well...........meaning the wealth stays firmly in the same hands.

So far I can only offer you today's snap shot which might surprise you ( hint: hard work doesn't have that much to do with being uber-wealthy)

By Chris Vellacott

LONDON |
Thu May 26, 2011 11:20am EDT



LONDON (Reuters) â€" Britain’s billionaires are more likely than their U.S. counterparts to have made their own money rather than inherited it, a study has found, challenging popular perceptions of greater social mobility in America.



A survey by French bank Societe Generale and Forbes of super-rich people in 12 countries, many of whom are billionaires, found 80 percent of the British sample entirely “self-made,” as opposed to inherited wealth or a mix of both.



Among the U.S. rich, 68 percent were entirely self-made, the report said. Just a 10th of the British multimillionaires have wealth that was all inherited, compared with 18 percent of American billionaires, the report said.



Only Russians beat the British for the dominance of new money with all those in the survey having made their own millions in the two decades since the dismantling of the Soviet Union’s command economy.



The super rich in China, India and Brazil also appear to be more bound to old money than British elites, at least for now.



Two-thirds of Brazilians and 65 percent of Chinese and Indians have wealth categorized as entirely self-made, as opposed to inherited or a blend of sources, the survey found.



But the report also noted that Brazil, Russia, China and India are seeing the most growth in the super rich population.



“Today, both China and Russia have more than 100 billionaires in their ranks, putting them second and third behind the U.S.,” it said.



In Germany and France only about a third of the samples had wealth classed as purely self-made.



The rich of Britain and the United States were older than their Chinese or Indian counterparts, however. The average age of the sample in Britain and the United States was 65 and 66 respectively, compared to 60 in India, 50 in China and just 49 in Russia.



(Reporting by Chris Vellacott, editing by Paul Casciato)



Source: http://feeds.reuters.com/~r/reuters/smallBusinessNews/~3/5qAGHm7xzFU/us-wealth-selfmade-rich-idUSTRE74P2XX20110526

[BridgeTroll]

I agree with Mr Johnson...

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/10/02/bets_robert_johnson_to_obama_stop_attacking_the_wealthy.html

BET founder Robert Johnson on the "FOX News Sunday" program: "Well, I think the president has to recalibrate his message. You don't get people to like you by attacking them or demeaning their success. You know, I grew up in a family of 10 kids, first one to go to college, and I've earned my success. I've earned my right to fly private if I choose to do so.

"And by attacking me it is not going to convince me that I should take a bigger hit because I happen to be wealthy. You know, it is the old -- I think Ted and Fred and I we both sort of take the old Ethel Merman approach to life. I've tried poor and I tried rich and I like rich better. It doesn't mean that I am a bad guy.

"I didn't go in to business to create a public policy success for either party, Republican or Democrat. I went in business to create jobs and opportunity, create opportunity, create value for myself and my investors. And that's what the president should be praising, not demagoguing us simply because Warren Buffet says he pays more than his secretary. He should pay the secretary more and she will pay more."

[BridgeTroll]

Very good find Stephen.  Couldn't agree more.  But lets put it into context shall we?  Reagan wanted to lower rates across the board and simplify the tax code eliminating loopholes. (created BTW by the leadership and approval of both parties)  The elimination of loopholes and decreased tax rates were designed to spur growth. (Which they did)  Mr Obama wants to close loopholes AND increase rates. (spurring growth??)

On a side... the zombie makeup and costumes of the protesters were awesome...

[FayeforCure]

I agree with Mr Johnson...

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/10/02/bets_robert_johnson_to_obama_stop_attacking_the_wealthy.html

BET founder Robert Johnson on the "FOX News Sunday" program: "Well, I think the president has to recalibrate his message. You don't get people to like you by attacking them or demeaning their success. You know, I grew up in a family of 10 kids, first one to go to college, and I've earned my success. I've earned my right to fly private if I choose to do so.

"And by attacking me it is not going to convince me that I should take a bigger hit because I happen to be wealthy. You know, it is the old -- I think Ted and Fred and I we both sort of take the old Ethel Merman approach to life. I've tried poor and I tried rich and I like rich better. It doesn't mean that I am a bad guy.

"I didn't go in to business to create a public policy success for either party, Republican or Democrat. I went in business to create jobs and opportunity, create opportunity, create value for myself and my investors. And that's what the president should be praising, not demagoguing us simply because Warren Buffet says he pays more than his secretary. He should pay the secretary more and she will pay more."

LOL how sexist........when did "the secretary" become a female?

And in true "anecdotal fashion" of Republicans, they will find one exception to the rule and hold it out for the rest of us.

In this anecdotal case the success ratio was one in 10 children, when the nation's success ratio is more like one in 100 million people to have the great fortune of becoming part of the uber-rich.

Besides like you said there are different versions of the rich, but increasingly CEOs have become targets as a growing source of income inequality:

Another way that income can be used as a power indicator is by comparing average CEO annual pay to average factory worker pay, something that has been done for many years by Business Week and, later, the Associated Press. The ratio of CEO pay to factory worker pay rose from 42:1 in 1960 to as high as 531:1 in 2000, at the height of the stock market bubble, when CEOs were cashing in big stock options. It was at 411:1 in 2005 and 344:1 in 2007, according to research by United for a Fair Economy. By way of comparison, the same ratio is about 25:1 in Europe. The changes in the American ratio from 1960 to 2007 are displayed, based on data from several hundred of the largest corporations. http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html





How is this justified in this supposed land of equal opportunity?

[hillary supporter]

Also, I AM a Millennial, and so are ALL my friends.  I bet I'm more connected to them than you, despite my spite for these lazy bums in the park. 

While I'm older than many Millennials parents and have friends that run through all age groups, the fact that I'm a life long artist and former guitarist for a punk rock band that toured Europe with Fishbone ( which has enabled me to meet countless numbers of your generation) makes me confidant to say I'm much more connected to the Millennial generation than your arrogant quote above.
Its my advice, being the old fart you take me for leads me to believe you will only laugh, that you look at the exceptional accomplishments you have and are making and be happy and grateful for them and discard the (self admitted) pride and elitism which is strongly flavored in every word you say.
With that, I'm outta here!

[BridgeTroll]

I agree with Mr Johnson...

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/10/02/bets_robert_johnson_to_obama_stop_attacking_the_wealthy.html

BET founder Robert Johnson on the "FOX News Sunday" program: "Well, I think the president has to recalibrate his message. You don't get people to like you by attacking them or demeaning their success. You know, I grew up in a family of 10 kids, first one to go to college, and I've earned my success. I've earned my right to fly private if I choose to do so.

"And by attacking me it is not going to convince me that I should take a bigger hit because I happen to be wealthy. You know, it is the old -- I think Ted and Fred and I we both sort of take the old Ethel Merman approach to life. I've tried poor and I tried rich and I like rich better. It doesn't mean that I am a bad guy.

"I didn't go in to business to create a public policy success for either party, Republican or Democrat. I went in business to create jobs and opportunity, create opportunity, create value for myself and my investors. And that's what the president should be praising, not demagoguing us simply because Warren Buffet says he pays more than his secretary. He should pay the secretary more and she will pay more."

LOL how sexist........when did "the secretary" become a female?

And in true "anecdotal fashion" of Republicans, they will find one exception to the rule and hold it out for the rest of us.

In this anecdotal case the success ratio was one in 10 children, when the nation's success ratio is more like one in 100 million people to have the great fortune of becoming part of the uber-rich.

Besides like you said there are different versions of the rich, but increasingly CEOs have become targets as a growing source of income inequality:



How is this justified in this supposed land of equal opportunity?

lol... probably a racist too huh Faye...  Onward with your class warfare.  It is too bad you cannot see that this anecdotal example should serve as an example of what people in this country CAN DO...