Jacksonville mayor comes out against new toll road

[Dashing Dan]

It also appears to me that tufsu doesn't think there is anything that needs to be "fixed," so let's leave it at that.

hardly....I just know which battles can be won and which ones cannot.

You can't win any battles if you don't have any money.

I grew up in Robert Moses' territory.  There isn't anyone in this game who has that kind of "talent".  Lt. Gov. Carroll can be her own worst enemy.  Scott's the same way.  The person who wanted Mosley out has shot himself in the foot.

[tufsu1]

35,000 to 75,000 anticipates that sprawl develops around the road as a result of its construction by opening virgin land up to development. 

true...forecasts in 2025 are much lower (20,000 to 60,000)....and that still assumes some developmenmt occurs between now and then

also keep in mind that the proponents will tell you this isn't the $2 Billion project....this part only costs $300 million

[Dashing Dan]

At the regional council meeting last Thursday, there was supposed to be unanimous resolution in support of tolls for this project. 

But not everyone was on board.

From WJCT:

The Northeast Florida Regional Council has thrown its support behind the Outer Beltway, the first toll board to be built on the First Coast in over 20 years. But as WJCT’s Kevin Meerschaert reports, the plan to bring back tolls to Duval County is still garnering opposition.

http://www.wjct.org/mp3/news/oct06km.mp3

no money = no project

[tufsu1]

let's not overstate things dashing dan...there are 35 members (31 can vote)on the NEFRC board...I believe something like 25 were present...and only 2 voted NO on the "endorsement of tolls"....and both of those said they do like the project

[urbanlibertarian]

Mayor brown is about to appear on 89.9FM from 9am to 10am.

[tufsu1]

count how many times he says "second to none" and "public private partnership"

[JeffreyS]

Sounds like the Koch brothers are getting their GP pipeline in some form.

[Dashing Dan]

let's not overstate things dashing dan...there are 35 members (31 can vote)on the NEFRC board...I believe something like 25 were present...and only 2 voted NO on the "endorsement of tolls"....and both of those said they do like the project

The draft resolution included the word "unanimous."  It didn't turn out that way.

[north miami]

let's not overstate things dashing dan...there are 35 members (31 can vote)on the NEFRC board...I believe something like 25 were present...and only 2 voted NO on the "endorsement of tolls"....and both of those said they do like the project

NEFRC of course composed of local government representatives;the local governments "joined at the hip" with ardent development boosters.
When pressed Beltway Boosters refer to Public 'Sector Plan' process and other growth management elements under the "Public" banner.

Erroneous traffic alleviation images flourish.Former MPO Head Calvin Burney's euphoric statement ( Florida Times Union 5-5-1998 B.2) "The Jacksonville Metropolitan Planning Organization........estimates nearly 30,000 vehicles a day will travel the road as soon as it opens" was a crowning achievement in promotion of "alternate" and "alleviation" measures for Blanding Blvd.
In fact,30,000 Average Daily Traffic (ADT) would not be an immediate effect,but rather after a period of modeled time,much of the ADT the result of new development the corridor would generate.
Although FTU Mike Clark encountered vague runaround with Burney and agreed the matter did merit further investigation the episode never did lodge with the Reader public.

The legally binding "NO BUILD " public option opportunity period passed quietly,and likely without proper public notice.

Throughout that era,while serving on a Statewide Conservation and Growth Management organization I heard a message loud and clear: To profile to the public Regional Council individuals by name and illuminate Development ties ( perhaps even via official Record Book & Page....... Horrors!) was considered rude and out of the mainstream.

[urbanlibertarian]

count how many times he says "second to none" and "public private partnership"

A little early for a drinking game, doncha think?

[JeffreyS]

I was surprised and I think the Mayor was too that people were pushing on the pipeline.  He addressed people not being happy with the city employees he removed by saying I'm the Mayor so it's up to me.  I still don't like the Bill Killingsworth firing but I like how strong the Mayor seems compared to our prior Mayor.

[JeffreyS]

Maybe a moderator should split the radio comments from this thread.

[north miami]

per Tufsu post:

I-295 - projected 2035 volumes

BFCX - projected 2035 volumes

North Miami lodges the following;

PROJECTIONS.  By whom,and under what assumptions.....?
N.M.

[tufsu1]

they are projections from the regional trravel demand model...built by the tPO and used by planning agencies all over the region...includes BEBR population projections with adopted local comprehensive plan future land uses

[thelakelander]

35,000 to 75,000 anticipates that sprawl develops around the road as a result of its construction by opening virgin land up to development. 

true...forecasts in 2025 are much lower (20,000 to 60,000)....and that still assumes some developmenmt occurs between now and then

also keep in mind that the proponents will tell you this isn't the $2 Billion project....this part only costs $300 million

What they won't tell you is $300 million equals...

25 miles of newly constructed 2-lane roadways with 5' sidewalks, and curb & gutter...or

24 miles of expanding existing 4-lane roads to 6-lanes with 5' sidewalks, and curb & gutter...or

30 miles of newly constructed heritage streetcar lines....or

10 miles of skyway extensions....or

121 miles of milling and resurfacing existing 4-lane streets with 5' sidewalks, curb & gutter.....or

896 miles of newly constructed 12' wide multiuse paths throughout the region....or

1,334 miles of newly constructed 6' wide sidewalks....or

100 extra pedestrian/bike bridges over our complex network of wide arterial roadways that isolated multimodal connectivity between adjacent neighborhoods...