Jacksonville mayor comes out against new toll road

[Dashing Dan]

I've seen my share of half-built dams and uncompleted interchanges.  This project is dead in the water.

[thelakelander]

My guess is we'll get a half built Outer Beltway.  The construction and ultimate failure of this initial 15-mile segment will cool the talk on extending this thing into St. Johns County and north of I-10.

Anyway, does anyone know how this project became a larger priority than widening the northern half of the I-295/9A beltway between JAXPORT and the Westside?  That project would actually serve a purpose, create short term jobs and help stimulate long term warehouse, logistics, industrial and port related jobs.

[Dashing Dan]

Cincinnati has a subway tunnel but no subway.

[thelakelander]

So true.  We have a skyway stub to the stadium but no skyway.  There's also a Hart Bridge Expressway heading to the beach that abruptly ends as Beach Blvd.  Thinking about incomplete projects, goes anyone know how we ended up with a 20th Street Expressway (MLK Parkway) that doesn't have interchanges west of I-95?

[Dashing Dan]

My understanding is that the original I-95 ran via 20th Street, Haines Street, the Mathews Bridge, the Arlington Expressway, and  Southside Blvd. Before they built the current I-95, that stub would have carried traffic from US 1 to the original I-95.

When it first opened, the Fuller Warren Bridge wasn't connected to anything.

[tufsu1]

Anyway, does anyone know how this project became a larger priority than widening the northern half of the I-295/9A beltway between JAXPORT and the Westside?  That project would actually serve a purpose, create short term jobs and help stimulate long term warehouse, logistics, industrial and port related jobs.

SR 9A (I-295) is scheduled to be widened between Heckscher and I-95 in 2014/2015.....so the 6 lanes should open about the sdame time as the Branan Field-Chafee Expressway does.

[tufsu1]

It also appears to me that tufsu doesn't think there is anything that needs to be "fixed," so let's leave it at that.

hardly....I just know which battles can be won and which ones cannot.

I have spoken up on countless occasions questioning this road (often with traffic data in hand)....but leaders in Jax, Clay County, regional organizations/agencies, and FDOT see it differently.

[thelakelander]

Tufsu1, what about I-295 between I-95 and I-10?  The majority of the railyards and industrial parks are along that stretch. 

[fieldafm]

There's also a Hart Bridge Expressway heading to the beach that abruptly ends as Beach Blvd.

That was originally supposed to link to JTB... until the GOB network reconfigured those plans.

Thinking about incomplete projects, goes anyone know how we ended up with a 20th Street Expressway (MLK Parkway) that doesn't have interchanges west of I-95?

The Haines Street Expressway was built as a quick thoroughfare around town to hit 95 and the Matthews Bridge, before the Dames Point Bridge was ever discussed.  It was just a cut through to the highway without having to go through the traffic downtown.  Part of the Jacksonville Expressway's plan to drive people to the bridges without having to ever touch downtown.

When I lived off Heckshire, this was the route we used to go to/from Regency Mall.  I got my haircut on Saturdays on the corner of 8th and Main... and then mom would go get her hair cut at Regency Mall.  I would get a roll of quarters to go play in the arcade and we would eat at Mr Dusenberry's(which became European Street.. featured on the Park and King After 5 event next Friday  ) afterwards. 

I've seen my share of half-built dams and uncompleted interchanges.  This project is dead in the water.

I could see maybe it not being a complete loop, but it seems the wheels are prety much turning on getting the first stretch of this road built.

Same thing that happened with 9B.  Flagler wanted that portion built, and so be it.  The rest of it probably won't get built anytime soon or if at all.

Anyway, does anyone know how this project became a larger priority than widening the northern half of the I-295/9A beltway between JAXPORT and the Westside?

For a governor that is supposed to be pro JaxPORT and pro Cecil Commerce Center... that would make more sense, UNTIL you look at who benefits from the this particular portion of the beltway.  It's not suprising to know who those people voted for

[Ethylene]

I just ran into Alan Mosley at Chamblins, about 30 minutes ago, while getting my daily cup of coffee.  He looked pretty sharp, said hello, shook my hand, told me to say hello to the boss and disappeared into the bookstore.

I spotted him in the Main Library today too, probably just before he headed to Chamblins. I had a double expresso in my hands and perhaps I influenced his next stop. Agreed, he did look sharp!

[tufsu1]

Tufsu1, what about I-295 between I-95 and I-10?  The majority of the railyards and industrial parks are along that stretch. 

just a short 6-lane section from I-10 to Commonwealth and a modified interchange at Pritchard Rd.

heck, the rest didn't even make the TPO LRTP as a cost feasible project (is in the needs plan)....truth is the projected traffic isn't huge

[thelakelander]

truth is the projected traffic isn't huge

But the Outer Beltway is?  I smell fuzzy math going on again.

[tufsu1]

in comparison....yes and no....remember, one road already exists as a 4 lane expressway

I-295 - projected 2035 volumes range from 80,000 to around 100,000 vehicles per day.

BFCX - projected 2035 volumes (with tolls) range from around 35,000 to 75,000.

the key thing to look at is roadway capacity....the max. capacity of a 4 lane freeway is around 80,000 so I-295 is not way over capacity (buit like I said, 6 lanes are stil "needed").

The part I don't get is why FDOT originally proposed buiding the new expressway as a 6-lane facility from I-10 to SR 21....I think the current plan is to construct only 4 lanes (but with a wide median for future expansion).

[thelakelander]

35,000 to 75,000 anticipates that sprawl develops around the road as a result of its construction by opening virgin land up to development.  Without the highway, a significant chunk of the projected trips never happen.  One can't help but notice that if the true transportation issue is dealing with congestion on a few existing arterials, there are solutions available that don't call for spending $2 billion and permanently subsidizing another highway.  It will be interested to see how the development landscape is reconfigured once we come out of our economic rut.  National trends indicate constructing the beltway would be a fiscal and economic disaster for the public.

[Dashing Dan]

There's also a Hart Bridge Expressway heading to the beach that abruptly ends as Beach Blvd.

That was originally supposed to link to JTB... until the GOB network reconfigured those plans.

The freeway to the beaches was supposed to be via the Hart Bridge.  JTB was originally supposed to be another Southside Blvd, not a freeway.  That's why the I-95 JTB interchange is such a mess.  There wasn't supposed to be a freeway interchange at that location.