Ben Carter Properties and Area Development

[marksjax]

Lake were you staying at the Renaissance? I recognize the view from when I stayed there a few years back. Nice spot!

[thelakelander]

Yes.  I stayed two nights at the Renaissance and another two at the JW Marriott next to LA Live, after spending a couple of days in San Diego.

[rjp2008]

I hope they do a better job. I think one of the mistakes they made with SJTC was not inviting enough 24 hr and night time entertainment venues to keep it going and draw a bigger crowd. A movie theater, a major gym, a concert/ballroom type space, a Wannado city for kids - think entertainment Carter, not just ho-hum daytime stuff. Something more than just a bar also.

[blizz01]

I always look at that lake/pond across the street when pulling out & wish that they'd get creative with it - I know that Black Creek Outfitters uses it to "test" kayaks/canoes, but it would be pretty cool to have pedestrian bridges/piers spanning certain areas - maybe even a "waterski without a boat" kind of venue.....

[thelakelander]

They didn't do a movie theater because Tinseltown was a mile away. They designed a shopping center for a demographic that wasn't being served in the Jax market. It's hard to argue that the product hasn't been a success. Yeah, the layout could be better, but it would have been the city's responsibility to direct that process (change land use policies to encourage pedestrian friendly design).

[copperfiend]

I hope they do a better job. I think one of the mistakes they made with SJTC was not inviting enough 24 hr and night time entertainment venues to keep it going and draw a bigger crowd. A movie theater, a major gym, a concert/ballroom type space, a Wannado city for kids - think entertainment Carter, not just ho-hum daytime stuff. Something more than just a bar also.

It's not perfect but it seems to be a huge success.

And it's obviously still a work in progress also.

As for entertainment, there has been talk for a few years of a bowling alley being added.

[tufsu1]

Yes.  I stayed two nights at the Renaissance and another two at the JW Marriott next to LA Live, after spending a couple of days in San Diego.

Lake travels in style!

[Riverrat]

It doesn't make any sense that they didn't try to do a "Landing" type festival marketplace at the Markets...they already have the dining and nightlife portion there and it seems more on the way...but instead of it looking like a fun and exciting festival marketplace, it looks like a strip mall. It's amazing what a lack of vision can accomplish.

Additionally, I've always thought a parking garage would have done wonders at SJTC - right in the sea of parking around the DSW/Teds/Pier One area...a nice disguised garage with ground floor retail...hell, maybe even a hotel or condos or offices on the top few floors of it.

And I guess while we're at it and I'm venting...it drives me nuts how they allowed a boring Homewood Suites to build behind Maggiano's instead of a hip "lifestyle" or boutique hotel with a trendy bar/lounge/cafe that could've contributed to Town Center instead of turning its back to the center.

[finehoe]

olive oil and vinegar specialty store

Seriously?  I give it six months, tops.

[thelakelander]

Yes.  I stayed two nights at the Renaissance and another two at the JW Marriott next to LA Live, after spending a couple of days in San Diego.

Lake travels in style!

I travel with my Marriott discount.  If I had to pay the full rate of hotels these days I wouldn't be going anywhere.

[thelakelander]

It doesn't make any sense that they didn't try to do a "Landing" type festival marketplace at the Markets...they already have the dining and nightlife portion there and it seems more on the way...but instead of it looking like a fun and exciting festival marketplace, it looks like a strip mall. It's amazing what a lack of vision can accomplish.

I don't think the nightlife component at the Markets is a lack of vision.  The shopping center was already built and was empty (a lot of spaces still are).  It was smart on their part to fill it with a cluster of entertainment options that weren't present in the area instead of waiting for general retail market conditions to improve.  Btw, as far as vision goes, the group that brought in Whisky River and the others built an urban entertainment center in Charlotte with the same tenants about a year or two earlier.

Additionally, I've always thought a parking garage would have done wonders at SJTC - right in the sea of parking around the DSW/Teds/Pier One area...a nice disguised garage with ground floor retail...hell, maybe even a hotel or condos or offices on the top few floors of it.

It would.  However, unless the site demanded that a garage had to be built, it would be cost prohibitive to the developer's main reason for building the center, which is to make a profit.  A single structured parking stall can cost as much as $25k to construct, so a 1500 space garage would cost you millions.  Unless, higher lease rates could be justified, a retail developer would be better off lighting their money on fire by financing the Outer Beltway.

And I guess while we're at it and I'm venting...it drives me nuts how they allowed a boring Homewood Suites to build behind Maggiano's instead of a hip "lifestyle" or boutique hotel with a trendy bar/lounge/cafe that could've contributed to Town Center instead of turning its back to the center.

This is something I blame the city with.  We approved the plans and they fit like a glove with our suburban policies.  If we want more walkability and sustainable development in suburbia, we need to change public policy to stimulate it.

[copperfiend]

Additionally, I've always thought a parking garage would have done wonders at SJTC - right in the sea of parking around the DSW/Teds/Pier One area...a nice disguised garage with ground floor retail...hell, maybe even a hotel or condos or offices on the top few floors of it.

Parking garages are good ideas but are pretty damn expensive. I think a garage between Cheesecake Factory and Dillards still makes sense but I doubt it ever happens.

[rjp2008]

I disagree that they're too expensive - the amount of ground space you save by building five stories of stacked parking lots gives you more area for retail, mixed-use leases or even attractive features such as a lake that people can walk around while shopping/eating instead of just a retaining pond in the back of the property.

[thelakelander]

If they (garages) were not too expensive, they would be there already.  As I said earlier, if their desire was profit motivated, you can't fault them because what they built has people going there in masses.  Btw, the plans do show a garage or two at a later date in time.  However, those would not be built until they land a couple of extra anchors who's buildings would occupy some of the surface parking lots.

[Riverrat]

I don't think the nightlife component at the Markets is a lack of vision.  The shopping center was already built and was empty (a lot of spaces still are).  It was smart on their part to fill it with a cluster of entertainment options that weren't present in the area instead of waiting for general retail market conditions to improve.  Btw, as far as vision goes, the group that brought in Whisky River and the others built an urban entertainment center in Charlotte with the same tenants about a year or two earlier.

By lack of vision, I mean it should have been planned that way from the very beginning. The last thing that center needed in the plans was another strip mall section.

It would.  However, unless the site demanded that a garage had to be built, it would be cost prohibitive to the developer's main reason for building the center, which is to make a profit.  A single structured parking stall can cost as much as $25k to construct, so a 1500 space garage would cost you millions.  Unless, higher lease rates could be justified, a retail developer would be better off lighting their money on fire by financing the Outer Beltway.

Couldn't ground floor retail help pay for it? As well as saving surrounding land for further development thus further profit?