Europe's Quiet Revolution, a Model for the US?

[NotNow]

If you want to tax expensive and ostentatious, may I suggest the Fair Tax?  Wouldn't a tax on consumption be a fair, progressive, and GREEN form of taxation?

[Diderot]

So raising capital tax rates will not make the super-rich pay their "fair" share; it will encourage capital flight, driving factories and innovation abroad. The rich will still get their high returns, but U.S. workers will have fewer jobs and lower wages.

This is an interesting statement to make, given that the tax rate for the highest 2% has fallen significantly since 1960.   Reagan lowered the top bracket to 28% (from an earlier 94% after WWII until JFK dropped it to 70% where it remained until 1982).



Let's compare the effect on lower taxes for the top 2% job creators with the outsourcing of U.S.  jobs overseas:




Interesting correlation.

When our tax burdens were highest on the top 2%, American manufacturing dominated the globe, and out of the industrial output rose America's middle class, high paying manufacturing jobs that in turn spurred a robust and growing economy that depended little on foreign nations for manufactured goods and services.

In 1965 manufacturing accounted for 53% of the economy, by 1988, after six years of 'trickle down' economics, it accounted for 39 percent, in 2004, just 9 percent.

America may gain access to cheaper products through outsourcing, but it also comes with attendant problems, including a downward pressure on wages. Laid-off manufacturing laborers are largely switching into lower-paying jobs in the service industry.

So no, tax rates do not encourage job creation at home, any more than they discourage them.  The main difference is “the Chinese will work seven days a week for US$0.50 to US$1 an hour with no benefits for social security, health care, vacations, a pension or worker safety. … In America, the going wage would be 10 to 20 times higher including all benefits”


It’s not hard to see why, in order to reduce costs, manufacturing businesses have been abandoning America in droves and fleeing to Asia.

Which brings us back to Faye's article.  Europe's brand of "social capitalism" is resulting in Europe scoring in the top on social and health indicators; moving progressively on  renewable energy technologies; and despite rhetoric suggesting that social programs make the European economies weak and sclerotic, Europe has the largest economy in the world, almost as large as the United States and China combined.

And perhaps the most important lesson from Faye's article is the degree economic democracy in Europe, how many of our large companies would have moved U.S. jobs overseas if workers at major corporations has representatives that sit side-by-side with stockholder representatives on the corporate boards of directors?


Sources:

  http://visualizingeconomics.com/2007/11/03/nytimes-historical-tax-rates-by-income-group/
  http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/04/19/159555/us-corporations-outsourced-americans/
  http://www.thetrumpet.com/?page=article&id=1955

[Diderot]

If you want to tax expensive and ostentatious, may I suggest the Fair Tax?  Wouldn't a tax on consumption be a fair, progressive, and GREEN form of taxation?

Now what you could do is have corporations taxed at the highest possible level. But they could reduce those taxes dramatically: by proving that they have created jobs in any tax year and getting a tax credit for each new position.

There's only one very significant catch: the jobs must be created in the US, not overseas. If employers maintain their current workforce in America, they would also receive a tax credit. If businesses move jobs overseas, their taxes get raised higher depending upon the percentage of their workforce that is offshored.


http://blog.buzzflash.com/node/12930

[FayeforCure]

Now what you could do is have corporations taxed at the highest possible level. But they could reduce those taxes dramatically: by proving that they have created jobs in any tax year and getting a tax credit for each new position.

There's only one very significant catch: the jobs must be created in the US, not overseas. If employers maintain their current workforce in America, they would also receive a tax credit. If businesses move jobs overseas, their taxes get raised higher depending upon the percentage of their workforce that is offshored.


http://blog.buzzflash.com/node/12930

This is exactly how it worked for generations, Diderot.  Until the wealthiest two percent started demanding that they have the right to hire very cheap foreign labor but still be allowed to sell their products in the US at the same prices.

Oh, and if they got their taxes slashed, scouts honor, they would reinvest that money back into the economy.

Supply Side economics has failed utterly and needs to be placed roughly on the dustbin of history as the crackpot theory that it was thought when David Stockman rolled it out in the 80s.

We need to go back to the American Way, and start over.

Yup, even David Stockman is recanting his long-held positions, seeing how disasterous they were for our country after 30 years of unmittigated supply-side economics. Here are some of his most recent statements that other Republicans should do well to take note of:

The Republican "no tax increase" position is preposterous; we are collecting less than 15% of GDP in taxes, the lowest since 1950, and spending 24% of GDP.

and

Finally, the $800 billion defense and security budget is a relic of the Cold War, which ended 20 years ago, and should be cut by $200 billion. We no longer have any industrial state enemies and we have been fired as the world policeman - so it is time to mothball some carrier battle groups, ground some air wings, drastically reduce our troop strength, end the futility of Afghanistan and stop buying multibillion high-tech weapons that we can't afford and don't need.

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/29/david-stockman-on-our-quasi-bankrupt-country/

[BridgeTroll]

Finally, the $800 billion defense and security budget is a relic of the Cold War, which ended 20 years ago, and should be cut by $200 billion. We no longer have any industrial state enemies and we have been fired as the world policeman - so it is time to mothball some carrier battle groups, ground some air wings, drastically reduce our troop strength, end the futility of Afghanistan and stop buying multibillion high-tech weapons that we can't afford and don't need.

Wonderful Faye!  We have had at least two Dem presidents and one or two dem majorities during that twenty years.  What?  It just keeps getting bigger?? WTF??

Which battle group Faye?  The mayport battlegroup?  Which airwing?  The one in Reid or Pelosi's district?  Which weapons programs?  Whose district do they come out of?  How many people does this put out of work?  Earlier I posted a whole laundry list of defense contracts worth billion just for Florida.  Which ones of those should be cut?

[BridgeTroll]

Which ones should we cut?  These are but a few... but you get the point... I hope.

http://www.floridadefense.org/documents/ERAU/Contracts%20monitor/Florida%20Defense%20Contracts%20Monitor%20-%20March%202010.htm


Quote
X5, LLC, Fort Walton Beach, Fla., was awarded on March 25 an $18,000,000 indefinite-delivery/indefinite-quantity firm-fixed-price contract.  This contract is for research and development, science & engineering and related logistical and administrative support services for all engineering reach and development center laboratories and other local Corps entities.  Work is to be performed in with an estimated completion date of March 31, 2014.  Bids were solicited via the Federal Business Opportunities Web site with four bids received. U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, ERDC Contracting Office, Vicksburg, Miss., is the contracting activity.


Quote
Hellfire Systems, LLC, Orlando, Fla., was awarded on March 24 a $268,750,936 firm-fixed-price contract for fiscal 2010 option exercise for a total quantity of 3,955 HELLFIRE II missiles.  Work is to be performed in Orlando, Fla., with an estimated completion date of Sept. 30, 2013.  One bid was solicited with one bid received. U.S. Army Contracting Command, AMCOM Contracting Center Redstone Arsenal, Ala., is the contracting activity.


Quote
Teledyne Scientific and Imaging, LLC, West Palm Beach, Fla., was awarded on March 19  a $6,763,839 cost-plus-fixed-fee contract for a Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency program that will revolutionize the underlying technologies for unmanned sensor systems.  This effort seeks to emulate the mammalian visual pathway by implementing advanced models and algorithmic emulations of the entire visual pathway from retina to the visual cortex.

Quote
Suffolk Construction, Sarasota, Fla., is being awarded a $19,231,000 firm-fixed-price contract for design and construction of a physical fitness center at Marine Corps Base, Camp Lejeune. The work provides for design and construction of a Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED) “Gold” certified physical fitness center.

Quote
General Dynamics â€" Ordnance and Tactical Systems, St. Petersburg, Fla., is being awarded $19,961,049 for delivery order under previously awarded firm-fixed-price contract (M67854-05-D-6014) for the Production Lot 3 (PL3) procurement of 20 full rate production Expeditionary Fire Support Systems (EFSS) together with their corresponding basic issue item kits, additional authorization list hardware. The EFSS provides all-weather, ground-based, close supporting, accurate, immediately responsive, and lethal indirect fires.

Quote
Lockheed Martin Corp., Simulation, Training and Support, Orlando, Fla., is being awarded an $83,305,442 cost-plus-incentive-fee contract to design, develop, fabricate, integrate, and test the electronic Consolidated Automated Support System. In addition, this provides for the procurement of 14 engineering development models during the system design and development phase of the contract.

Quote
Raytheon Network Centric Systems, St. Petersburg, Fla., is being awarded a $13,680,670 modification to previously awarded contract (N00024-08-C-5202) for the design agent and engineering services for the cooperative engagement capability (CEC) system.

Quote
Lockheed Martin Missiles and Fire Control, Orlando, Fla., was awarded a $41,898,184 contract which will provide for the purchase and contractor logistic support of sniper advanced targeting pods to support a foreign military sale customer,

Quote
Kaman Precision Products, Inc., Orlando, Fla., was awarded a $46,253,422.83 contract modification which will provide a quantity of 12,994 joint programmable fuze systems.  At this time, entire amount has been obligated.  679 ARSS, Eglin Air Force Base, Fla., is the contracting activity.

[BridgeTroll]

Here are a list of Florida military bases... Which ones should go?

http://militarybases.com/florida/

Air Force Bases (5)
Eglin AFB Valparaiso
Eglin AFB is operated by Air Force Materiel Command and located in Valparaiso, Florida. The air base...

Hurlburt Field Mary Esther
Hurlburt Field is located in Okaloosa County, near Mary Esther, Florida. It serves as a support air ...

MacDill AFB Tampa
MacDill AFB is operated by Air Mobility Command and located in Tampa, Florida. It was established in...

Patrick AFB Brevard
Patrick AFB is operated by Air Force Space Command and located in Brevard County, Florida. It is hom...

Tyndall AFB Panama City
Tyndall AFB is part of Air Education Training and Command near Panama City, Florida. It is home to t...

Army Bases
Camp Blanding Starke
When Camp Blanding, Florida, was founded as a Florida National Guard training camp, no one envisione...

Coast Guard Bases (3)
Air Station Clearwater Clearwater
Known officially as the United States Coast Guard Air Station Clearwater, this base is located in th...

District 7 Miami
The main headquarters of the United States Coast Guard 7th District is located in Miami Florida. The...

ISC Miami Miami Beach
The USCG Integrated Support Command headquarters in Miami provides support duties for the operation ...

Marine Bases
Blount Island Command Jacksonville
The Blount Island Command is part of the United States Marines Corps’ Maritime Prepositioning ...

Navy Bases (11)
AUTEC Complex West Palm Beach
The Atlantic Undersea Test and Evaluation Center is a laboratory tasked with the maintaining the nav...

NAS Jacksonville Jacksonville
Naval Air Station Jacksonville is a military air base located in Jacksonville, Florida. It was estab...

NAS Key West Key West
Naval Air Station Key West is a naval air base located in Key West, Florida. Established in December...

NAS Pensacola Pensacola
Naval Air Station Pensacola is a naval base located in Escambia County, near Pensacola, Florida. Est...

NAS Whiting Field Milton
Naval Air Station Whiting Field is one of only two primary pilot training bases of the United States...

Naval Air Warfare Center Orlando
The Naval Air Warfare Center Training System Division, Florida (NAWCTSD) is located in Orlando. The ...

Naval Hospital Jacksonville Jacksonville
The Jacksonville Naval Hospital is located within NAS Jacksonville. It provides both in-patient and ...

Naval Hospital Pensacola Pensacola
The Pensacola Naval Hospital serves the personnel assigned at the Pensacola Naval Air Station and th...

NS Mayport Duval
Naval Station Mayport is a military base located 7 miles east of Jacksonville, Florida at the mouth ...

NSA Panama City Panama City
The Naval Support Activity Panama City in Florida is a research center in Florida aimed at advancing...

Training Center Corry Pensacola
Corry Station Naval Technical Training Center is a military training base located in Pensacola, Flor...

[FayeforCure]

Finally, the $800 billion defense and security budget is a relic of the Cold War, which ended 20 years ago, and should be cut by $200 billion. We no longer have any industrial state enemies and we have been fired as the world policeman - so it is time to mothball some carrier battle groups, ground some air wings, drastically reduce our troop strength, end the futility of Afghanistan and stop buying multibillion high-tech weapons that we can't afford and don't need.

Wonderful Faye!  We have had at least two Dem presidents and one or two dem majorities during that twenty years.  What?  It just keeps getting bigger?? WTF??

Which battle group Faye?  The mayport battlegroup?  Which airwing?  The one in Reid or Pelosi's district?  Which weapons programs?  Whose district do they come out of?  How many people does this put out of work?  Earlier I posted a whole laundry list of defense contracts worth billion just for Florida.  Which ones of those should be cut?

Ah, so we are in a status quo because nobody can make the tough decisions and it is so much easier to cut from the elderly, the sick, the disabled and the poor.

penny wise and pound foolish!

[BridgeTroll]

No Faye... above are the lists.  Which Florida programs and bases would you cut?  You want to cut defense??  here ya go... just cut and paste a list...

[FayeforCure]

No Faye... above are the lists.  Which Florida programs and bases would you cut?  You want to cut defense??  here ya go... just cut and paste a list...

No worries BT......I'm just glad we both agree it needs to be done!

Military spending is 25 percent of the nation's budget, and if the deficit super committee can't agree on a plan, $500 billion will be cut from the Pentagon over 10 years.

http://articles.courant.com/2011-08-19/business/hc-blumenthal-jobs-20110819_1_blumenthal-board-cuts-military-spending

[BridgeTroll]

Ah... OK.  So YOU dont want to do it either.  Hilarious...

[BridgeTroll]

I want to thank you for nominating me to be the Democratic Senator from the great state of Florida.  (raucous cheers and applause).  As you all know... Americas defense spending is out of control... (wild cheers and applause)  When you elect me to the senate my first order of business will be to cut at least 200 billion dollars from the defense budget... (The crowd goes crazy)... and to set the example the cutting will begin right here at home... (subdued applause, confused looks)  As you know... Florida is home to an astonishing 20 military bases... most of them left over relics from the Cold War.  I will propose we close one from each branch of service... (no applause, an eerie stillness)

From the Airforce... Eglin AFB ( a smattering of boos)
From the Army... Camp Blanding (more boos)
From the Navy... Mayport (getting louder)

C'mon people... we really need to get a handle on this military industrial complex.  So in addition to cutting unneeded bases we will cancel our fair share of defense contracts located in Florida...  Beginning with...

the 280 million dollar contract to produce Hellfire II missiles at Hellfire systems of Orlando.

next up...

the General Dynamics â€" Ordnance and Tactical Systems, St. Petersburg, Fla., contract worth $19,961,049 building Expeditionary Fire Support Systems

next...

Lockheed Martin Corp., Simulation, Training and Support, Orlando, Fla., contract worth $83,305,442 producing the electronic Consolidated Automated Support System.

And finally...

Kaman Precision Products, Inc., Orlando, Fla., contract worth $46,253,422.83 to produce 12,994 joint programmable fuze systems.

This will be tough but I want to lead the way... and with your votes and support... we can DO THIS!

Thank you all for coming and I will see you on the campaign trail... (patriotic music plays and confetti and balloons from the ceiling... the crowd is oddly silent...)

[KuroiKetsunoHana]

i'm not surprised.  faye's a lot like me--all talk, no action, slightly cuckoo.

bridge, i don't think focusing on florida's the way to do it--that makes it look like we're just moving military dollars out ov florida into other states.  while i don't claim to have the education or the general knowledge to have an opinion on specifically which bases/suppliers/whatever should be cut, i think cuts should be distributed (as) evenly (as possible) across the country.

[BridgeTroll]

I think that would be fair also Kuroi.  But the point of this is Faye keeps saying it is republicans fault... the corporations fault... the fill in the blank fault.  When in fact it is the legislators of each state and district (of both parties BTW) who dont want THEIR bases or programs cut.  Cut THOSE programs over there... not these programs over here.

In addition... they talk about cutting defense... but only in very nebulous and general terms.  Almost never specifics.  Why is that??  Because to talk specifics... about their own state... they will never get elected/reelected.  Those bases and programs are civilian jobs.

So the problem isnt just republicans... it isnt just tea partiers... it is ALL of your legislators... with the possible exception of Ron Paul...

[FayeforCure]

i'm not surprised.  faye's a lot like me--all talk, no action.

bridge, i don't think focusing on florida's the way to do it--that makes it look like we're just moving military dollars out ov florida into other states.  while i don't claim to have the education or the general knowledge to have an opinion on specifically which bases/suppliers/whatever should be cut, i think cuts should be distributed (as) evenly (as possible) across the country.

Maybe you should do a google search...........have you ever run for US Congress?

I have: there were 150,000 voters who voted for me!

But I agree with you that we can make across the board cuts in our defense contracts and have the contractors figure out ways to save in their own operations.

Boeing, Northrop Grumman, General Dynamics and Raytheon should be forced to streamline their operations........we simply cannot afford the bloated contracts that have been awarded.

Golden decade is ending for defense industry, and stocks
By Jonathan Fahey, Associated Press

NEW YORK â€" The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are winding down, Osama bin Laden is dead, and the federal government is deeply in debt. This spells the end of what was a golden decade for the defense industry.


In the decade since the Sept. 11 attacks, the annual defense budget has more than doubled to $700 billion and annual defense industry profits have nearly quadrupled, approaching $25 billion last year.

Now defense spending is poised to retreat, and so are industry profits. "We're about to go into the downhill side of the roller coaster here," said David Berteau, a defense industry analyst at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

MORE: Cutting defense won't be easy
Congress agreed last month to cut military spending by $350 billion over the next 10 years. The defense budget will automatically be cut another $500 billion over that period if lawmakers fail to reach a deficit-cutting deal by November

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/story/2011/08/Golden-decade-is-ending-for-defense-industry-and-stocks/50000766/1