Jacksonville mayor comes out against new toll road

[Dashing Dan]

No

Publicâ€"private partnership (PPP) describes a government service or private business venture which is funded and operated through a partnership of government and one or more private sector companies. These schemes are sometimes referred to as PPP, P3 or P3.

PPP involves a contract between a public sector authority and a private party, in which the private party provides a public service or project and assumes substantial financial, technical and operational risk in the project. In some types of PPP, the cost of using the service is borne exclusively by the users of the service and not by the taxpayer. In other types (notably the private finance initiative), capital investment is made by the private sector on the strength of a contract with government to provide agreed services and the cost of providing the service is borne wholly or in part by the government.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public%E2%80%93private_partnership

(I hate to quote wikipedia but it's so d*** convenient.)

[iMarvin]

This whole road will definitely be built. And the tolls will definitely come.

I don't think we need this road but I KNOW it will be built.

Any new capacity on any new roads will be tolled. In the LRTP, it says they plan on adding new lanes on 95 on the southside and that they will be managed (aka tolls?)

[Dashing Dan]

The best reason to believe that this road will be built is the Hart Bridge Expressway.

[Jaxson]

The best reason to believe that this road will be built is the Hart Bridge Expressway.

Please tell us more.  I am not sure what you mean...

[thelakelander]

^I can see this.  They'll probably construct this 15-mile segment, it won't generate the anticipated revenue or come close to paying for itself and the rest will wither away to the same place that the bridge connecting Timuquana and JTB went.

[cline]

^I can see this.  They'll probably construct this 15-mile segment, it won't generate the anticipated revenue or come close to paying for itself and the rest will wither away to the same place that the bridge connecting Timuquana and JTB went.

Do you know if the Timuquana/JTB bridge got as far as having any studies done or was it killed off long before it reached that point.

[Dashing Dan]

The best reason to believe that this road will be built is the Hart Bridge Expressway.

Please tell us more.  I am not sure what you mean...

Just because it would be a mistake doesn't mean that it's not gonna happen.

[thelakelander]

Do you know if the Timuquana/JTB bridge got as far as having any studies done or was it killed off long before it reached that point.

I don't know how far studies went but they did enough to consider and price out the cost of a tunnel option before it died.

[Dashing Dan]

Do you know if the Timuquana/JTB bridge got as far as having any studies done or was it killed off long before it reached that point.

I was directly involved with that "project."

It was included in the City of Jacksonville Comprehensive Plan as well as in the 1990* Plan of the Jacksonville Urban Area Transportation Study ("JUATS" was the predecessor to the MPO/TPO), but killed off long before any more meaningful planning studies were initiated. 

*1990 was the horizon year for the JUATS plan.  The JUATS plan itself was completed in 1973.

[Dashing Dan]

Do you know if the Timuquana/JTB bridge got as far as having any studies done or was it killed off long before it reached that point.

I don't know how far studies went but they did enough to consider and price out the cost of a tunnel option before it died.

First hand recollections can be unreliable, but I don't remember anything about a tunnel option.

[thelakelander]

Don't need recollections when you have scans saved in MJ's photo archives just in case the topic comes up.  However, it wasn't to JTB, the Southside end would have been University Blvd. If interested, go to the main library's special collections department and do a search on JTA.  There's a ton of forgotten information concerning Jax's history in there.

[thelakelander]

Here's a few more that were looked at but didn't happen:


With this interchange, you wouldn't have to worry about keeping Riverside's duck pond clean.


The original plan for what becaome I-95 was designed as a trench, similar to Arlington Expressway.


Anyone remember the days when downtown and the Mathews Bridge were so busy that all four lanes flowed east during rush hour?


Think downtown's one way streets are bad now? Imagine if this loop had been put into place


There was once a proposal to take out Springfield and Arlington with a bypass for the Arlington Expressway, as if I-95 didn't do enough damage to adjacent neighborhoods.

[Dashing Dan]

Don't need recollections when you have scans saved in MJ's photo archives just in case the topic comes up.  However, it wasn't to JTB, the Southside end would have been University Blvd. If interested, go to the main library's special collections department and do a search on JTA.  There's a ton of forgotten information concerning Jax's history in there.

That's not the JUATS plan or the city's 1973 comprehensive plan.  I have my own copy of the JUATS plan in a file, and I have a copy of the city's comp plan somewhere.  In both of those plans there were not one but two bridges between the Buckman and Fuller Warren bridges.  One would have extended from 103rd street and the other would have been via an extension of Dancy Street.  But I can't recall where either of them would have connected on the southside.

My copy of the JUATS plan is actually a copy of the JUATS annual report for 1978, which shows one or both of those bridges crossed off the map.

[thelakelander]

Take it up with the FTU as bad journalism.  I wasn't around back then but there's definitely a newspaper clipping with a story about it and its in the library's special collections department.

[Dashing Dan]

As a joke Ed Mueller, who was the executive director of the JTA at that time, liked to refer to the JUATS plan as "the Three Governors' Plan" because it would have involved taking the homes of three then-living former governors of Florida: Fuller Warren, Hayden Burns, and somebody else.  My memory is faulty, so he might even have called it the Five Governors Plan, but I can't imagine that there were ever five living former Fla. governors living in Jacksonville, or that the plan would have hit all five of them.   Until very recently, Ed Mueller would show up occasionally at local ITE meetings, but he hasn't been to one lately.