Huguenot Park - Your access today!

[Springfielder]

+ 1000

[Garden guy]

Does anyone have a mockup of what the area looked like pre spanish?...

[kitester]

SO Peejay,

I think you missed the point of my last post. I never said it was my

"aim to remove the natural animals from the area so that you can have better access to enjoy the natural splendor of the world around you, but without all those pesky god damn wild animals?"

Its almost as if you have not been following this thread at all.
Your use of GD indicates a diminished capacity to communicate. But, since you missed the point I will try to explain it again.

I am not anti-environment. However I do think there should be a realistic balance. The miles of "beach access" you refer to are not real beach. Even the “beach “ at Huguenot park is a manmade construct. The beaches along Jax, Neptune And Atlantic Beach have to be maintained so the encroaching buildings wont wash away. They have  become a commercialized asset and that is how they are used.

Less than a half a mile away From Huguenot is the Talbot Island State Park system and many square miles of undisturbed natural areas of the Timuquan Preserve. With its nice parking and board walks Little Talbot Island has reasonable access to a small part of that beach if you are willing (or able) to walk several hundred yards out to the water. As I have stated before I think that would be a reasonable thing to do with Huguenot Park. Place three large parking areas inside the dune line and provide good access to the beach over the dunes. People with special needs could be allowed to obtain a special permit to drive to certain areas. That would accommodate the fishermen, jetski and small boat users and the handicapped. It would eliminate most of the beach driving while not disenfranchising those people in our community. I also think that pet owners should be allowed to bring pets back into the park. This could be accomplished without harm to the wild life by making it a seasonal permit or restriction. See there? One simple change would make the park useable to all the people and remove most beach driving. But, when suggested at several meetings this idea was flatly rejected by Audubon and Sierra representatives.

If you want to go to a place where  “that solitude wasn't interrupted by some lazy jackass in a pickup truck with his stereo blasting, who just ran over a couple of birds to get here.” Go to Talbot. And by the way spouting Audubon rhetoric and lies blindly is not a good way to go. The more you do the more cred you lose. Lets talk about the bird deaths for a minute.  I remember when not one baby tern or gull was fledged at the park. We actually had a better bio-diversity there. When the colony relocated to the park (in spite of the human presence) about 9 years ago there were only a few fledglings here and there. Drivers could easily avoid them and did. The only birds lost to cars were the ones that were seeking shade under them. With each year the colony grew. At some point it got so large that it was hard to maneuver a car around the birds. It was at that time that I (yes, I was the first) suggested that the city place a protective barrier up to keep cars separate from the baby birds. That was about to happen. Then a very regrettable thing did happen. Two idiots decided that it would be fun to drive through a group of fledglings. They killed or maimed about 30 of them. As I understand it only one of those idiots was caught. Shortly there after the bird protection fence was installed and the colony protected. That should have been the end of the story. But, the Audubon saw a chance to shut down the whole park and convert it into part of the giant already existing preserve. With the city’s lease up for renewal they tried every tactic they could. They misrepresented information at city meetings. Some volunteers took pictures of bird carcasses that had only been run over by cars after the bird had died and presented them as evidence of car killing birds. Every year they went to ARC in Tallahassee and showed the same pictures (several years old) to the committee in an attempt to stop the city from obtaining its lease. They did an end run around our local elected officials in an attempt to shut the park completely and were successful for 24 hours. Now that cars are prevented from driving through the area on the point during the nesting season bird deaths have actually increased as the colony has grown. Cars were never the reason for the majority of the deaths. Natural events, like the one which caused the colony to relocate to the park, are responsible for far more dead birds than drivers ever caused.

So like I said before. If you want a true natural experience visit the coast line along Talbot Island. Take a trip to Black Rock Beach. Its only ten minutes up the road. I go there three or four times a year mostly to look at birds and reptiles. Have you ever walked to the beach from the road? You should try it sometime. To be sure it is not, “neatly packaged”, as you say. It is, on the other hand, a very enjoyable experience when that is what you want.

But if you want a day at the beach to swim, fish, surf, ride a jet ski, sail a hobbie or just walk down the beach picking up sharks teeth and shells then Huguenot Park is the place to go. If you have a family with children and coolers and gear to carry then go to Huguenot Park. If bugs and snakes in high numbers bother you go to Huguenot Park. If you enjoy the social atmosphere and, yes, connivance that parking near the water gives then got to Huguenot Park.

You say that I am guilty of environmental group bashing. Well in this case they NEED some. You say that I am just a “pro-Huguenot-access mouthpiece” but, please don’t pigeonhole me that way. The efforts by these groups to close or remove public access is much more far reaching than just the park. This is a national issue.

And because you asked…..

I have served as a volunteer for Audubon, Sierra Club, Nature Conservancy, B.E.A.K.S., Bird Rescue and Animal Rescue  for over 30 years. I was involved with Jr. Audubon before that and I have served for the last four years or so as a member of the Huguenot Park Shore Bird Management Committee. I am a de facto bird steward and every day I pick up any trash I find or talk to people about the animal populations in the park. I am a member of Florida Open Beaches. My efforts are all boots on the ground where you get to see the real consequences (good and bad) of environmental groups in our area.

I understand that Surfriders accepts money from Audubon. I would need more information about that organization and its involvement with Audubon. Their efforts to support beach access have been strong in the past. I will be looking into the fishermen’s NPOs. Thank you for your suggestion.               

And my last point here…… I still respect your opinion even if you choose to use profanity. But, If you are annoyed by this thread I suggest you go spend a day at the beach and quit reading and responding. Surely a day in the woods at Talbot Island is better than sitting in the AC in front of the computer.  I think I will go to the beach!

Garden,

I saw some of the original surveys of the area before the jetty was installed. The area was mostly marsh grass with a few outside beaches or sand bars. Of course that was when surveying methods were far less accurate than today.

[kitester]

IT is time to open the whole ark back up. There have been no flightless baby birds seen in at least three weeks. The trigger number is 3 days! That is in the management plan. Call the park an ask to have the point opened back up. If the Audubon pushes so hard to close the park we should push just as hard to open it. If we dot ir will stay closed and they will close more and more for longer and longer until the whole park is gone. Call the park, e-mail the mayors office and ask them to open your park back up. If you  dont no one will.

[JettyDog]

The laughing gull population IS exploding. I go out frequently and observe the bird population whilst out there, mainly due to Duval Audubon's efforts to throw everyone out of the Park. The gulls eat their own chicks as well as other chicks ( Royal Tern, among others that I have personally witnessed ) and seem to be driving the Royal Tern population away from Huguenot. This may explain Audubon's stepped up efforts to eliminate beach driving through the use of outdated and stale information that they are now dissiminating to anyone who will listen. If the Royal Tern population flees to safer habitats like Talbot or Cumberland Island ( as they seem to be doing ), Audubon will not have any reason to close Huguenot down.
I again reiterate that any photos or information should be dated and time stamped along with accompanying identifying landmarks tying any loss of chicks or other pertinent data Audubon produces for any agency be current and not stale or outdated. We should ask that they do this and expect any agency to ask the same so there is an accurate picture of the Park. Huguenot Park Management is doing a fine job of documenting all of this in the manner stated above and may be something we may need to submit to any agencies Audubon is approaching about closure to driving.

[cline]

I know that St. Augustine and Daytona allow driving on the beach.  Perhaps you should just head down there.  It would probably be a lot less stressful for you.  You wouldn't have to worry as much about those pesky environmentalists keeping you from your God-given right to drive on the beach.

[kitester]

Hi Cline,

You are right that there still driving allowed on some areas of Daytona and St Augustine beach. The Audubon has been trying for years to shut those areas down as well. Some have been lost. Anastasia State Park had beach driving. For years the environmental lobby tried to get it banned there stating that the "beach mouse" was at risk. In fact the beach mouse is found in the dunes and marsh areas which was well away from the public access areas and driving. The minute a person was hit by a car in a hit and run accident the Audubon jumped at the chance to lobby hard to close the park beach to driving. Now the park is almost desolate and unused which is of course what they wanted. We permanently lost access to the Matanasas inlet area. They used the same argument that the area was the only one in north Florida where terns nested. The same argument they continue to try at Huguenot Park. In Daytona they have managed to shut down some areas both year round and seasonally.

Now, Cline, I am not stressed about the issue. Some closures are necessary and prudent. I just want people to sit up and take notice before its too late and most access is lost. Your extremely sarcastic comments indicate once again that you have no real or new information to add. You are obviously one to side with the pro-closure team. And of course that is your right. Driving on the beach never was any kind of right but,  it is a privilege. And its one that I feel should be protected where there is no other alternative for beach access. If it takes pointing out the lies and misinformation disseminated by those people with a my way or the highway view of things  then so be it.

I suggest that you take a hike, literally, on Talbot or Anastasia. You will probably be alone which may be the way YOU like it.     

[north miami]

Death to the Laughing Gulls!!! 

[north miami]

Tom Ingram,recently tagged as "Activist" by the Times Union,will possibly take the Waterways Commission podium re River Access hand launch points.

The opportunity was available to anybody.

[kitester]

Huguenot Park needs volunteers. As we get closer to the summer the park is asking for even-haned people to man the bird fence. In the past the Audubon has use the fence and it's "representatives" to harass the public. This year the Audubon will not field a steward nor will the city have an intern posted  at the fence. The true purpose of the fence is to keep auto traffic away from flightless baby birds. The true purpose of the stewards is to ask people to keep as much distance from the baby birds as possible without preventing access to the area. There is plenty of space for people to enjoy the beach on the point without disturbing the baby birds. ALL normal beach activities (except driving) are acceptable and possible during this time without disturbing baby birds. The park will train and equip volunteers.  There is no heavy lifting, you dont have to count birds and shade is provided. So if you have any free time to spend on a beautiful beach let the park office know. Thanks.

[kitester]

On another note......I wonder if most of the readers are aware of the destruction that has taken place on Talbot Island? Several months ago bulldozers and other heavy equipment were brought in to build a bike path the length of Big Talbot Island. The width of the disturbance was at least as wide as A1A. Dirt was moved or brought in to create "hills" and the path meanders in and out through the previously unmolested Florida hammock. Now Talbot Island was supposed to be left as an example of original Florida. It was fought for and won by Audubon to be kept as such.  It was a big feather in their caps. (no pun) And now it has a huge scar running through it. I spoke to some distance bikers who said it would not be really great if it has lots of curves. I guess they like the straight, flat road. The point here is why do we have such a conflict with environmental groups over the park and not a peep from them while their local crowning achievement is being raped just four miles to the north? One of my friends sees a twisted political agenda. As he puts it "it's all smoke and mirrors". It does seem odd. Have people who were involved in the fight over the park gained in some way? I understand that some were paid lobbyists and employes of environmental groups. Did the make their "bones" by fighting to close the park? Did they move up in the ranks? Any way it seems to me an incongruity that we must fight to matain access to a traditional long used and designated public recreational area while a slice of pristine local florida is quietly cut up for a small group that would have been happier with a straight, parallel bike trail.

[kitester]

Well at last it seems some sanity might be creeping back into the world.....

OBX II Support Free & Open Beaches
JONES INTRODUCES BILL TO RESTORE ACCESS TO CAPE HATTERAS NATIONAL SEASHORE RECREATIONAL AREA


WASHINGTON, D.C. â€" Today Congressman Walter B. Jones (R-NC) introduced H.R. 4094, legislation that would restore reasonable pedestrian and motorized access to the Cape Hatteras National Seashore Recreational Area. The bill would overturn a final rule implemented by the National Park Service (NPS) two weeks ago, as well as the 2008 U.S. District court approved Consent Decree. Both the Rule and the Consent Decree excessively restrict human access to the Recreational Area. The bill would reinstitute the Park Service’s 2007 Interim Management Strategy (IMS) to govern visitor access and species protection in the Recreational Area. The Interim Strategy was backed up by a 113-page Biological Opinion issued by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service which found that it would not jeopardize the species of concern, namely piping plover and sea turtles. H.R. 4094 has been referred to the House Natural Resources Committee for further consideration.

“The federal government needs to remember that Cape Hatteras was established to be a recreational area for the American people,” said Congressman Jones. “But taxpayers can’t recreate without access to the beach. The goal of management ought to be a balanced approach between visitor access and species protection. The Final Rule falls short of that goal. The Interim Strategy comes much closer to hitting the target.”

We should all support this man and his efforts to reopen the completely closed and permanently lost access in North Carolina. We must remember it is everyone’s access at stake. The draconian attempts to close the beaches in NC. and remove the public are damaging and completely unnecessary. In an article on Monday in the TU and Audubon representatives again misrepresented the facts. 


By Drew Dixon 
Beach closings for environmental reasons in North Carolina have spooked some First Coast beach access advocates who think Jacksonville’s Huguenot Memorial Park could be next.
Environmentalists, on the other hand, think it’s about time to start restricting the use of vehicles on beaches to protect nesting birds.

(This statement is completely false since the permanent dune closures imposed on the public protect the nesting birds and seasonal closures for beach driving protect the fledgling birds. Only emergency and park maintenance vehicles are allowed in the area along the north point during that time. Since the seasonal closures were instated not one single bird, adult or otherwise, has been injured or killed in that area by cars. There have been a very few incidents of bird deaths among the laughing gull populations outside those areas where flightless young birds walk out of the protected area seeking shade under parked cars.) 


“It’s a very ominous sign,” said Bobby Taylor of the developments along North Carolina’s Outer Banks barrier islands. Taylor, the president of the Florida Open Beaches Foundation and Heckscher Drive Community Club, said the closing of the beach known as “The Hook” to most vehicle traffic in Cape Hatteras along with a newly instituted off-road vehicle permitting policy in North Carolina is yet another blow to public beach access.
But Audubon Florida biologist Monique Borboen said the overriding issue should be the protection of wildlife when it comes to the beach.
“Our responsibility as Audubon is to preserve the natural resources,” Borboen said. “If some of the recreational uses are not compatible, we have to side on the interests of wildlife.”
Issue long disputed
Environmentalists and beach access advocates have been squaring off over the future of Huguenot for years. It’s the last beach in Duval County that allows driving on the beach, and the developments in North Carolina this month parallel the First Coast dispute. The National Park Service there closed the beach to vehicles in hopes of protecting nesting sea birds, according to the Island Free Press website.
That’s the same reason Audubon Florida has been arguing for permanent closure to vehicles of the northern area of Huguenot. Temporary beach closures at Huguenot are already in force depending on the seasonal nesting of birds.
Borboen said while many beachgoers are upset about the restrictions at Huguenot, they need to keep in mind that living beings are threatened.

(Notice how the birds are now referred to as living beings? That is because they have been caught too many times saying that endangered species were at risk at the park. The truth is that there is not one single "endangered", "threatened", or even "near threatened" species at the park. When questioned and directly asked on NPR's First Coast Connect which species at the park were listed as endangered even the local Audubon representative had no answer. She did not even understand the internationally accepted rating system used by the International Union for the Conservation of Nature. That system lists species in relation to their threat of extinction. Not even one of the species found at the park meets the standards that would place it any danger from human recreational use at the park. In fact all of the species at the park are listed as species of "least concern" This is the real data back by real science and not just a warm and fuzzy idea that beach driving is bad.)     



“Do not forget that for the wildlife, it’s just a matter of life and death,” Borboen said Wednesday. “If they can’t reproduce, their species goes extinct. Let’s remember, for people to go to the beach, it’s a matter of fun.”

(this issue has already been solved with the park management plan and seasonal closures.)

Taylor said beach access advocates are not against the environment. Taylor himself serves on a sea turtle patrol at Huguenot. But he said there’s no point in preservation if humans don’t get access.
“Anytime the public’s access to their resources is taken away from them, it’s another nail in the coffin to people’s access to their beaches,” Taylor said. “It’s strange that under the guide of protection, you close off access to it.”
A call for restrictions
In 2008, Jacksonville’s Huguenot Park management plan called for temporary restrictions to vehicles’ access to the beach for seasonal nesting. The Army Corps of Engineers, which owns the land, has not signed off on the plan, and Taylor admitted that leaves uncertainty to the future of Huguenot access.
As with North Carolina, Taylor warned any more restrictions on access to Huguenot will draw serious backlash.
“The only way you build environmental consciousness is to be out in the environment,” Taylor said. “This is a cautionary tale of how single-minded bureaucrats override the will of the people.”


(How true. But its not really a bureaucratic issue. The Audubon receives funding from donations, member dues and sales of the magazine, etc. Much of that money goes into paying lobbyists that bend every ear they can in government to push forward agendas that may or may not be backed by real science or actual studies. In other words its their job to tell a story weather its true or not. These "mouthpieces" make their "bones" by creating controversy where there is none and then using that invented controversy to push forward their agendas.  Its not any different than any other lobbyist.)
       
Borboen said Audubon still wants pedestrian traffic allowed at the northern end of Huguenot. So its not really about beach driving, its about money and who can get paid to say what ever someone wants them to say.)

(does anyone remember the one year when they prevented pedestrian traffic on the beach?? Yep, they did it until the city legal dept. was asked if they could do that and the answer was a flat no. The same Audubon representatives then blasted the city saying that they would close the whole park. It was not that long ago and yet they want to pretend as though they support pedestrians? I guess they think we are stupid.

“There always has been some kind of backlash to some kind of news of an area that has been restricted,” she said. “In the long term, it changes and then they have some other kind of patron who uses the beach [that’s] maybe more in line with nature.”

( In line with nature? I personally know of a surfer who was harassed by an Audubon reps on the beach. I guess fishermen are anti-nature too? Remember they are trying to remove us all.)
drew.dixon@jacksonville.com, (904) 359-4098


Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2012-02-27/story/driving-restrictions-could-be-next-huguenot-park#ixzz1nm804RVA


We should all through our support behind Walter B. Jones. Hell, he’s got my vote (if I could give it) I wish he was running for president!

[urbanlibertarian]

From the Times-Union:

http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/400646/drew-dixon/2012-03-23/government-officials-discuss-future-access-huguenot

Government officials to discuss future access to Huguenot Memorial Park in Jacksonville

Submitted by Drew Dixon on March 23, 2012 - 12:13pm Drew Dixon's Blog

Several governmental officials are set for a meeting Wednesday to discuss the future of vehicle access at Huguenot Memorial Park, the only remaining seaside park that allows vehicle driving in Duval County.

Officials from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers along with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and the city of Jacksonville are planning to meet at 10 a.m. Wednesday at the Jacksonville Ecological Services Office off Bay Meadows Road to review possible plans for the future of the park and seasonal beach closings to protect nesting migratory sea birds.

Jacksonville Parks spokeswoman Pam Roman said the Army Corps requested the meeting.

“Our understanding is that the meeting is to discuss the management plan. That's all the information we have right now. We don't expect to have additional info until after the meeting,” Roman said.

Environmentalists and beach access advocates have been squaring off over the future of Huguenot for years. In 2008, Jacksonville’s Huguenot Park management plan called for temporary restrictions to vehicles’ access to the beach for seasonal nesting. The Army Corps of Engineers, which owns the land, has not signed off on the plan.

While several governmental officials are set to attend, it is not clear if the meeting is open to the public.

http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/400646/drew-dixon/2012-03-23/government-officials-discuss-future-access-huguenot

[kitester]

Well here we go again......

The environmental lobby has been trying to force the closure of the park for a long time. This may be the final nail in the coffin for the last true access to the beach and water our town claims it prizes. For years the people of our community have visited the park to enjoy the best beach, the best fishing, the best surfing. The park has seen 450 thousand visits each year for the past 20 years. More of us go to the park than go to Jaguars games. But once again the park is under attack. The claims that nesting birds are endangered at the park is pure rubbish. The city’s management plan addressed and solved those issues years ago. The environmental lobby needs to be kicked to the curb! Because they had no other valid reason to claim that the park should be closed they jumped on the “safety” bandwagon. I guess any closure justifies the means, right Audubon/ Sierra club? And the incident of the child that ran under a car last week will only serve to pour more gasoline on the park funeral pyre. I saw the billboard last year that said “ The most dangerous thing for a child is an inattentive parent.” BULLSEYE! In our candy coated, kindergarten society we have forgotten that we are the ones responsible for our own well-being. SO if you cant keep your kid safe, keep them in a cage! Or be responsible for their safety wherever you take them. This park stands a good chance of going the way so many other PUBLIC ACCESS LANDS have, NO PUBLIC ACCESS!       

[RiversideLoki]

I strongly disagree with your statement blaming the parents of the child for the child being hit. I've been on that beach more times than I can remember, and every time I see people driving faster than the speed limit, drinking, and not paying attention to where they're going. Cars on that beach are a HAZARD, plain and simple.

Parents should have every expectation that a public beach should be a safe place for their children to play. Yes, it's the parents responsibility to watch their child, but inattentive and impaired drivers are a real problem on the beach. Children move fast, but cars move faster and win the "gross weight" contest. It's up to the driver to be cognizant of what their driving over, around, etc.. Sadly, most of the drivers I've observed over the 18 years going to that beach simply use the sand as an excuse to hot-dog and show off.

Many people (myself included) would rather go to Little Talbot simply for the fact that there are NO CARS. Yes, I have to hike it a bit with my beach cart to get to where I want to be, but the fact that I don't have sand-pirates and idiot rednecks threatening myself and my family make it worth it.