Presidential address last night

[FayeforCure]

So why pray tell, don't you rather live in a third world country with no "government interference"?

why, pray tell, don't you go live in a country that has even more government interference - Greece perhaps?  I hear they are doing a jam up job over there.  you don't like this country, that's obvious - the whole risk/reward and being the beacon of the world is too much for you.  life is easier somewhere elsewhere.  go for it. someone will take care of you. places where their government economists are scratching their heads right now.

You are the one that hates government, I don't hate government and I believe in what the US used to stand for:

Equal opportunity and prosperity for all

That is no longer the case due to the coup of corporatism and the protection of the ultra-wealthy at the expense of THE PEOPLE.

me as well - what the US used to stand for - limited government, controlled by the people - a US that does not spend more than it takes in and the majority is self-reliant and does not depend on hand-outs and redistribution.

A US that perhaps pays attention to what is going on rather than obsessing over American Idol and True Blood.

Glad we agree about the "equal opportunity and prosperity" for all as a bedrock of joined American ideology. The thing we disagree on is the role of government.

You are talking about the role of government back in the days when corporatism did not yet exist and there were very few ultra-wealthy people with congress in their pocket.

Now both corporatism and the ultra-wealthy yield enormous power and in my view the role of government is to PROTECT the people.

Just like I cannot protect myself from foreign invaders, so too can I not protect myself from the hugely disproportionte power of corporatism and the ultra-wealthy looking after themselves at the expense of the people and our country.

So instead of small government we need effective government that fights for THE PEOPLE!!

[Garden guy]

I guess we all must accept that this and life is about the "haves" and the "havenots"...it's always been about that and always will...the haves try to keep and take as much as they can and the have nots just try to make it through this thing called life...

[FayeforCure]

I guess we all must accept that this and life is about the "haves" and the "havenots"...it's always been about that and always will...the haves try to keep and take as much as they can and the have nots just try to make it through this thing called life...

Yes Garden Guy..........it's always been like that...........except the American People aspired for MORE: a level playing field.

Back when America was a beacon for the world............we actually DID have a more level playing field, but this has been systematically dismantled since the 80's by corporate interests and the ultra-wealthy who did not believe in "shared prosperity" or "shared sacrifice" for themselves!!!!!

Privatize the profits and socialize the losses is all around us!!

[Sigma]

Fact:

Of the $14.3 trillion debt ceiling we have now, $4.5 trillion got added by Democrat-controlled Congresses since taking control in 2007.

In the six years preceding this $4.5 trillion expansion of debt limits, Republicans expanded it by $3.85 trillion. 

[FayeforCure]

wow another heritage foundation ideologically driven chart by sigma 

Gross federal debt as a percentage of GDP is a more accurate comparison, and looking longer range to another time we were facing a DEEP crisis when the country actually pulled together under President Truman

[Sigma]

uh Faye - Heritage did not make up the numbers - please note the source of the information.  your efforts to conflate the issue has not succeeded - much like your Keynesian economic belief - or should we say "cash for clunkers".

[Dashing Dan]

OK - Let's take the chart at face value. 

It goes down during every postwar Democratic administration.  Its lowest point is at the end of the Carter administration.

For Republicans it only goes down during Eisenhower's and Nixon's administrations.

It went up at the beginning of the Clinton administration and then it went down.  So give Obama another year or two and then let's see what happens.

The simple truth is that Republicans would rather cut taxes than deficits.

[avs]

The simple truth is that Republicans would rather cut taxes than deficits.

and it doesn't work

[JeffreyS]

I feel like the balanced approach the democrats have been "talking" about is better.  At this point however they have not tried to put a detailed plan to a vote so it is hard for them to throw stones.

[Sigma]

^ would like to see an actual plan as well Jeffrey - it seems that both sides are more interested in how to pin blame after the Aug 2 deadline than working to get it done.  However, the Dems have not had a budget in the 2 years Obama has been in office and don't seem to have one now.  No plan - just blame. 

[Sigma]

So give Obama another year or two and then let's see what happens.

You mean congress, right? 

[BridgeTroll]

The chart Stephen found says it best of all...

[Sigma]

“The fact that we are here today to debate  raising America ’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that  the US Government can not pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on  ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s  reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America ’s debt weakens us domestically and  internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here.' Instead,  Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our  children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of  leadership. Americans deserve better.”   

-- Senator  Barack H. Obama, March 2006

[FayeforCure]

I feel like the balanced approach the democrats have been "talking" about is better.  At this point however they have not tried to put a detailed plan to a vote so it is hard for them to throw stones.

Actually here is the projection forward based on current law:



Not too shabby at all and put together by the non-partisan CBO!!

Conclusion: the budget crisis is manufactured by the Republicans because we have a Democratic President for once who has presided over increased budget deficits due to inherited wars and and an inherited recession.

[JeffreyS]

Then why isn't the President pointing to that when he is out there spinning his case.  I am a big fan of the President but we have to present something in order to decide if it is good or bad.  He can present just a raise in the ceiling if he wants and use those figures as justification. We can not pass any legislation that is not written out as legislation.  I think the Dems are on the right path but at this point that is just a guess.  The Republicans have put forth plans for the the CBO to score, for congress to debate.  The Dems have just done brainstorming. It is a bit late in the game to not have a bill you could contrast with the Republican bill.  Then it will be in writing the common areas and the conflicting parts.