Twisted Martini closing at The Jacksonville Landing

[fieldafm]

the landlord is geared to suburban shopping centers

Lets be fair, that same landlord that ‘doesn’t know what he’s doing apparently b/c he just knows stipmalls’ was also involved with the Jax Beach Town Center that helped transform Jax Beach from a woefully neglected shthole into a vibrant center of activity.  That worked out pretty well, didn’t it?

To me, it just seems like it's poorly managed & in the middle of an unfinished Riverwalk.

I walk from RAM to the Landing every weekend.  The only part that is unfinished is the portion that goes from Berkman to Met Park.  The Northbank Riverwalk currently connects any node of activity that exists along the shore of the St Johns with the Landing.

Oh, and just try to get something simple like a bottle of water anywhere on the property with a credit card. Sure you can do it, but you'll also be required to buy a bunch of other stuff because all the places have something like a $5 minimum purchase (which is just idiotic & drives people away). This isn't some high class establishment, so save the minimum purchase crap for some other time when things aren't going downhill.

There’s only two places that do that, and it’s certainly not without precedent anywhere else in the city.  I can name 10 places off the top of my head in Riverside that do the same.  The Landing's available facilities are for the most part move-in ready.  The same can't be said for a large number of empty storefronts in Riverside and Springfield.

It's nothing really major, just some management that doesn't have it's head up it's ass.

Please share your experience in commercial property mgmt…

You can't realistic ask for a high amount of rent in the condition that the Landing is in I would think.

Riverfront rent is EXTREMELY reasonable at the Landing.  There are currently about 6 places participating in the Off The Grid program which offers either free or reduced rent with utility responsibility.  Rent is NOT the problem.

The City/Sleiman will need to come to some resolution on land ownership/maintenance responsibility/dedicated parking, etc. for anything significant to happen with the retail center.

I think the Laura Street skyscrapers should better address the street.

Finally, some voice of reason... thank you!

[cline]

Lets be fair, that same landlord that ‘doesn’t know what he’s doing apparently b/c he just knows stipmalls’ was also involved with the Jax Beach Town Center that helped transform Jax Beach from a woefully neglected shthole into a vibrant center of activity.  That worked out pretty well, didn’t it?

Actually, to "be fair", the Jacksonville Beach planning department, specifically Steve Lindorff, should be the ones credited with transforming DT Jax Beach.  He was the one that basically put in place the Downtown CRA as well as its funding source that funded all of the new infrastructure.  That was the true mechanism that transformed downtown Jax Beach.

At any rate, could he at least paint the outside of the Landing.  It looks horrible and new paint would go a long way.

[fieldafm]

Actually, to "be fair", the Jacksonville Beach planning department, specifically Steve Lindorff, should be the ones credited with transforming DT Jax Beach.  He was the one that basically put in place the Downtown CRA as well as its funding source that funded all of the new infrastructure.  That was the true mechanism that transformed downtown Jax Beach.

Oh, you mean a government that was dedicated to rejuvinating their core, and instead of fueling the fires of a decades-old family feud, actually took a holistic approach to redevelopment and worked with willing developers?

Thank you for further proving my point.

[cline]

Actually, to "be fair", the Jacksonville Beach planning department, specifically Steve Lindorff, should be the ones credited with transforming DT Jax Beach.  He was the one that basically put in place the Downtown CRA as well as its funding source that funded all of the new infrastructure.  That was the true mechanism that transformed downtown Jax Beach.

Oh, you mean a government that was dedicated to rejuvinating their core, and instead of fueling the fires of a decades-old family feud, actually took a holistic approach to redevelopment and worked with willing developers?

Thank you for further proving my point.

As was mentioned earlier, it is going to take a compromise from both parties to get this done.  At this point it doesn't look like either one is willing to budge so you can't place all the blame on the City.

[peestandingup]

Oh, and just try to get something simple like a bottle of water anywhere on the property with a credit card. Sure you can do it, but you'll also be required to buy a bunch of other stuff because all the places have something like a $5 minimum purchase (which is just idiotic & drives people away). This isn't some high class establishment, so save the minimum purchase crap for some other time when things aren't going downhill.

There’s only two places that do that, and it’s certainly not without precedent anywhere else in the city.  I can name 10 places off the top of my head in Riverside that do the same.  The Landing's available facilities are for the most part move-in ready.  The same can't be said for a large number of empty storefronts in Riverside and Springfield.

Well, all I can say is that you need to go back & count, because almost every place in there does it in some form. Most post signs, but some don't & it's just an unwritten rule they go by.

I'll tell you what. You post the two you know of & then I'll post the six we counted the other day when my wife was trying to get a simple drink of water for our kid.

[fieldafm]

Downstairs, Village Bread isn't open on the weekend.. so that's not it.  Starbucks never had a min credit card amount.  Sundrez does as well as Apple a Day.  The cookie place only accepts cash.  Those are the only spots downstairs besides the restaurants/bars that sell bottled water.

I understand your frustration, b/c I rarely carry cash... but do you go to Art Walk or RAM and expect to be able to buy everything you want by credit card?  Having min charges on credit cards aren't unusual in any city you go.

You also could have probably asked nicely at one of the restaurants and they would have given your kid a to-go water.  Give one of the bartenders at Hooters a dollar tip and be polite and I'm quite sure they would have no problem pouring you a cup with a straw for your child.  They are moms too you know

[peestandingup]

Downstairs, Village Bread isn't open on the weekend.. so that's not it.  Starbucks never had a min credit card amount.  Sundrez does as well as Apple a Day.  The cookie place only accepts cash.  Those are the only spots downstairs besides the restaurants/bars that sell bottled water.

Bottled water, a fountain drink, whatever. The point is, no place would do it without buying more stuff. And this was the places you mentioned, plus the ice cream shop, the bars, all the food court places, etc. So I really dont know what you want me to say. They all have minimum purchases. Finally one of the food workers upstairs felt sorry for us & sold us a large lemonade for $3. Yippee.

No other mall-like places in town do this (Random Riverside stores on the street doing it has nothing to do with anything. This isnt Riverside, its a mall/entertainment venue). I dont expect that at Avenues, SJTC, etc & I wouldnt expect it at the Landing either. Especially when no one's even walking around over there & the businesses are mostly dead. But, there it is.

I understand your frustration, b/c I rarely carry cash... but do you go to Art Walk or RAM and expect to be able to buy everything you want by credit card?  Having min charges on credit cards aren't unusual in any city you go.

Again, apples & oranges. But since you asked, in this day & age of iPhones, smartphones & payment dongles like Square payment, there's really no reason why a random artist trying to sell their stuff couldnt accept cc payments. Its as simple as selling something & not selling something. I dont know many people who carry wads of cash around on them today.

You also could have probably asked nicely at one of the restaurants and they would have given your kid a to-go water.  Give one of the bartenders at Hooters a dollar tip and be polite and I'm quite sure they would have no problem pouring you a cup with a straw for your child.  They are moms too you know

I love Hooters & all (I'm friends w a girl who works the Landing Hooters actually), but no. Thats taking it pretty far just to get some water or a soda. Most people would just leave before they'd do that.

Sorry, but no amount of spinning is not gonna make this kind of stuff not suck. And its just one of the annoyances with this place. And its not that I actually really care that much (Im sure I'll be back), just saying most people would probably be turned off by it. And from the looks of the crowd (or no crowd), stuff like that isn't helping none I'd say.

[ChriswUfGator]

+1 to peestandingup

The stores at the landing (what few are left) are mostly run like a sketchy persian bazaar with off-putting vibes, weird rules, and 'gotchas.' Say what you will, but most people don't enjoy doing business with mall-based retail that's operated like a 7-Eleven on the wrong side of the tracks. Most malls wouldn't let this go on, the fact that it's rampant at the Landing is a sign of desperation, which only further turns customers off. The place is caught in a vicious cycle.

Realistically, the only way out at this point is to shut it down, do a total renovation and build the requisite new parking to sign chain retailers, sign the new retailers and restaurants, and then re-open it with a publicity blitz as the "new" Landing. Maybe even change the name. It's gotten to the point now where nobody from here will go there, except the few diehards who go because they see what it could be but isn't. For everybody else, you have to start with a clean slate that will attract them back down there after the two decades the place spent building a well-known reputation on how much it sucks ass.

In the meantime, Sleiman could sponsor some entertainment acts or something to draw people there, that would probably help. As it sits, and he must know this, there is absolutely no reason to go there. I can go to a sketchy convenience store a lot closer to my house. And I can even use my credit card.

[ProjectMaximus]

The Landing isn't losing tenants b/c of a greedy landlord... let's make that very clear.

A shrinking working population, recession and a year long road construction project have made life very difficult for a lot of restaurants.

And there was a video arcade for many years... where Mavericks(former Paris) is located

Tilt! I have about 1000 tickets from that place still. I came across one in Houston last year and if only I had my tickets with me I could've probably walked out with a nice teddy bear.

[duvaldude08]

The Landing isn't losing tenants b/c of a greedy landlord... let's make that very clear.

A shrinking working population, recession and a year long road construction project have made life very difficult for a lot of restaurants.

And there was a video arcade for many years... where Mavericks(former Paris) is located

Tilt! I have about 1000 tickets from that place still. I came across one in Houston last year and if only I had my tickets with me I could've probably walked out with a nice teddy bear.

I spent alot of time in that Arcade as a youth. SOO many memories. LOL

[tufsu1]

It's gotten to the point now where nobody from here will go there, except the few diehards who go because they see what it could be but isn't.

Once again, another generalization that is wrong....there are lots of locals AND visitors that go to the Landing...some of the restaurants still do a pretty brisk business, mainly because of locals.

Come check out the courtyard this weekend...I'm willing to bet there's a decent crowd Friday evening through Monday evening.

[acme54321]

Yes the "mall" portion of the landing is sketch.  The restaurants though actually do seem to do a pretty decent business at night though.  I really think they should renovate and get rid of the indoor mall part.

[ChriswUfGator]

It's gotten to the point now where nobody from here will go there, except the few diehards who go because they see what it could be but isn't.

Once again, another generalization that is wrong....there are lots of locals AND visitors that go to the Landing...some of the restaurants still do a pretty brisk business, mainly because of locals.

Come check out the courtyard this weekend...I'm willing to bet there's a decent crowd Friday evening through Monday evening.

Visitors are visitors, they don't know any better. But the locals, come on Tufsu, this is a city of a million people. A hundred people in a courtyard once a week isn't going to sustain the Landing, and we both know it. If you want to see people, go walk around the Avenues or Town Center, or Orange Park Mall. That is a profitable level of traffic. More people that use the bathrooms at the Cheesecake Factory at the Town Center in any given hour than there are in total at the Landing. It's ridiculous, you really can't argue this one.

And riddle me this; If it's such a smashing success, as you're claiming, why is it mostly vacant? Why did Twisted just close? Why did Starbucks just close? I have never seen a Mall so desperate they were willing to rent a waterfront anchor restaurant space to a local fitness center. Is this another example of how everyone else, including the paying customers who don't go there, and all the retailers who've gone bust trying to do business there, just don't recognize how awesome Tufsu says it is?

[tufsu1]

Visitors are visitors, they don't know any better. But the locals, come on Tufsu, this is a city of a million people. A hundred people in a courtyard once a week isn't going to sustain the Landing, and we both know it. If you want to see people, go walk around the Avenues or Town Center, or Orange Park Mall.

Actually I was at the Avenues the other day during lunch...was almost as ghost town like as the inside of the Landing

Plus, I'm willing to bet there will be close to 20,000 people that spend some time in the Landing courtyard this weekend...slightly more than 100.

Now, I never said the center isn't dying...it is and there a multitude of reasons...but certain establishments are still doing well...and they still draw a crowd for special events (country concerts, Jazz Fest, Rock on the River, etc.)

[ChriswUfGator]

Visitors are visitors, they don't know any better. But the locals, come on Tufsu, this is a city of a million people. A hundred people in a courtyard once a week isn't going to sustain the Landing, and we both know it. If you want to see people, go walk around the Avenues or Town Center, or Orange Park Mall.

Actually I was at the Avenues the other day during lunch...was almost as ghost town like as the inside of the Landing

Plus, I'm willing to bet there will be close to 20,000 people that spend some time in the Landing courtyard this weekend...slightly more than 100.

Now, I never said the center isn't dying...it is and there a multitude of reasons...but certain establishments are still doing well...and they still draw a crowd for special events (country concerts, Jazz Fest, Rock on the River, etc.)

This is Jazz Fest, Tufsu. One busy weekend out of a whole year doesn't support a business...

And about the Avenues, that was probably a poor example on my part. Ever since the Town Center opened up, the Avenues has been losing steam, starting to die. So use the Town Center, or Orange Park Mall, as examples then, compare that level of daily traffic to the Landing and you'll have no trouble seeing why it isn't profitable.

And a handful of special events doesn't support a mall either.