1325 Laura -- demolition hearing at HPC

[Timkin]

good.

[BigGuy219]

Forgive me for arriving late to the discussion, and I am sure this has already been mentioned, but nevertheless I thought I'd mention it.

Let us assume for a moment that nothing sinister is going on here. If it is simply a man who bought low cost housing in Springfield before the housing collapse, hoping to flip for a profit, but is now being hit with fines making bulldozing the only way out ... are there any other way outs?

It has been mentioned he could sell the house for $10,000. However, I believe I read that he paid $225,000 for 5 houses? That's a dramatic financial loss he's taking.

Since it is a historic district, has 'donating' the houses ever been considered? Would it be possible for the house to be donated to a non-profit historic society, allowing the owner to receive a tax writeoff for the full appraised value of the house? Not sure if this has been considered, or even if it's realistic.

[Timkin]

I am pretty sure Big Guy that the good doctor has not lost a thing. Pretty sure he made back his investment in one or two of those properties.  Now it may be that he gutted this place , intending to make a buck on it, and THEN the market went in the tank.. Still .. a bad Reason to tear a chimney out and not patch the hole where it was , in the roof.  just silly ... I would have at least patched that area.

There are too many of the scenarios not just in Springfield but in Jacksonville in general . Buy something.. neglect it. let fines accumulate. Demolish by neglect.  The very  same thing has been presented for PS # 4   .. When it was purchased it needed a re roofing and some upgrades. NOW it needs MILLIONS because it was neglected and has been vandalized ,adding to the tab. 

[BigGuy219]

I am pretty sure Big Guy that the good doctor has not lost a thing. Pretty sure he made back his investment in one or two of those properties.  Now it may be that he gutted this place , intending to make a buck on it, and THEN the market went in the tank.. Still .. a bad Reason to tear a chimney out and not patch the hole where it was , in the roof.  just silly ... I would have at least patched that area.

There are too many of the scenarios not just in Springfield but in Jacksonville in general . Buy something.. neglect it. let fines accumulate. Demolish by neglect.  The very  same thing has been presented for PS # 4   .. When it was purchased it needed a re roofing and some upgrades. NOW it needs MILLIONS because it was neglected and has been vandalized ,adding to the tab. 

Timkin, I just can't get my mind around this. I could understand if a few people were doing this. But it sounds rampant. Almost like an epidemic.

Has anyone ever bought a dillapidated property and been approached to let it rot and be demolitioned for a payoff?

I know it sounds far fetched, and paranoid, but when you tie in the fact that you have this many houses being demo'd and an arsonist on the loose ... maybe the people out to get you aren't in your head?

[Timkin]

well if they HAVE I have nothing formal to prove it .. I have to wonder the same thing though.. nothing else makes sense.   Buy a declining property.. do nothing to maintain it, let it continue to decay.  Demolish from neglect. 

You are probably on to something.  How to prove it

[BigGuy219]

well if they HAVE I have nothing formal to prove it .. I have to wonder the same thing though.. nothing else makes sense.   Buy a declining property.. do nothing to maintain it, let it continue to decay.  Demolish from neglect. 

You are probably on to something.  How to prove it

Well, you have a doctor from another part of town show up and buy five properties at cut throat rates? First, I'd look into his property history. Does he have a record of purchasing properties to rehab?

It would seem strange for someone to out of the blue say "Hey. I'm going to buy FIVE houses in Springfield to rehab as my first ever involvement in flipping houses."

If this is the guy's first time, then it does seem 'off' that he'd buy more than one. I realize not everyone thinks like me, but if this were something I was looking to do to make a legitimate profit, for my first time I'd just buy one and see how that experience went before tying up HALF A MILLION (house prices, plus rehab costs) in FIVE houses.

As my wonderful Jewish friends in New York would say, it's not kosher.

[Springfield Chicken]

The owner of the property has been approached a number of times about selling or donating the property.  He seems adamant that he wants to see his "vision" on that block and nothing is going to change that.  Over the years I've seen people invest in stocks when they know nothing about the market and sometimes they've made money and sometimes they've lost.  The same thing is true in real estate.  A number of people who didn't know what they were doing bought homes during boom years and made money and a whole bunch didn't.

I'm not saying which group this guy falls into, but he bought pre-boom and then did nothing during that hey day.  Now for some reason he's decided to take down another one of his purchases, though I can't see a reason for the timing.  He doesn't have a time frame for his "vision" so it doesn't seem imperative that a demolition be done now.

What is apparent is his total lack of personal involvement or sense of responsibility for the properties he bought.  He seems content to let them deteriorate, get advice from the wrong people, and to stubbornly insist on a "vision" that makes no economic sense.  AND he refuses to show up and fight his own battles, but instead sends his legal and construction minions to do it for him.

But I guess he's sitting in his million dollar plus riverfront home and doesn't want to get involved with the neighborhood he seems indifferent to.  (Sorry to the English majors for ending with a preposition.)

[iloveionia]

The biggest struggle is money.  I'll assume the Good Doctor has money, so I am not talking about him.  The home could be donated for the tax write-off (I'm not an accountant, so I don't know the specifics,) whether the doctor wants to or not,  I don't know.  That said, we, Preservation SOS (and other local non-profits) have been "offered" houses for donation.  Problem is none of us (us being SOS,) are independently wealthy.  We aren't even a year old yet and we work 100% on volunteerism and financial donations both cash and in-kind.  It is my frustration.  Well, I have a lot of frustrations about the houses needing love in Springfield, but lack of money is certainly one. 

Would the doctor lose money on the house?  Well no more than he would by paying for the demolition, fines, and any back taxes.  I get angry when I think about (in this particular case,) how he blatently ignored the fact that he purchased 5 homes and did diddly squat.  Oh, wait, he gutted and "rehabbed" one home, yeah the home currently listed on the MLS for over 1/2 million dollars, yeah, that home.  Had he done what many were doing in 2004/2005 he would have made BANK, and that corner of Laura would likely look loved. 

Sigh.

[ChriswUfGator]

The owner of the property has been approached a number of times about selling or donating the property.  He seems adamant that he wants to see his "vision" on that block and nothing is going to change that.  Over the years I've seen people invest in stocks when they know nothing about the market and sometimes they've made money and sometimes they've lost.  The same thing is true in real estate.  A number of people who didn't know what they were doing bought homes during boom years and made money and a whole bunch didn't.

I'm not saying which group this guy falls into, but he bought pre-boom and then did nothing during that hey day.  Now for some reason he's decided to take down another one of his purchases, though I can't see a reason for the timing.  He doesn't have a time frame for his "vision" so it doesn't seem imperative that a demolition be done now.

What is apparent is his total lack of personal involvement or sense of responsibility for the properties he bought.  He seems content to let them deteriorate, get advice from the wrong people, and to stubbornly insist on a "vision" that makes no economic sense.  AND he refuses to show up and fight his own battles, but instead sends his legal and construction minions to do it for him.

But I guess he's sitting in his million dollar plus riverfront home and doesn't want to get involved with the neighborhood he seems indifferent to.  (Sorry to the English majors for ending with a preposition.)

Are these contiguous or separate parcels? Are there any vacant lots next to the ones he's tearing down?

I agree with the other posters who said there's an angle to this, we just don't know what it is.

Nobody pisses away money like this for no reason.

[iloveionia]

Separate Parcels.
Yes, Vacant lot next to 1325 Laura where he DID have the 5th house, but that was torn down some time ago under his ownership.

[BigGuy219]

Separate Parcels.
Yes, Vacant lot next to 1325 Laura where he DID have the 5th house, but that was torn down some time ago under his ownership.

Hmm. I think we need a crude rendering of where these 5 properties are located on the map. And the status of the adjacent lots.

That may begin to paint a picture.

[ChriswUfGator]

Separate Parcels.
Yes, Vacant lot next to 1325 Laura where he DID have the 5th house, but that was torn down some time ago under his ownership.

Hmm. I think we need a crude rendering of where these 5 properties are located on the map. And the status of the adjacent lots.

That may begin to paint a picture.

+1

[iloveionia]

Standing at the intersection of 3rd/Laura and looking north, and on the east side of Laura.
1303 Laura (big yellow, remodeled, owned by doctor)
1311 Laura (needs love, owned by doctor)
1315 Laura (needs love, owned by doctor)
1319 Laura (vacant lot, owned by doctor, had house, demolished while doctor owned)
1325 Laura (the house this thread is about, owned by the doctor)
1331 Laura (a neighbor who wants the house demolished, spoke at HPC meeting)

So they all line up beginning from the east side of Laura from 3rd going north, and the lots extend from Laura Street to the alley.

Taxes are owed since 2009.
Even on the vacant lot.

http://maps.coj.net/WEBSITE/DuvalMaps/viewer.htm?Layers=0110110000110000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001000110&Tools=Yes&ActiveLayer=2&Query=RE%20%3D%20%27070877 0000%27&Queryzoom=Yes

[BigGuy219]

Standing at the intersection of 3rd/Laura and looking north, and on the east side of Laura.
1303 Laura (big yellow, remodeled, owned by doctor)
1311 Laura (needs love, owned by doctor)
1315 Laura (needs love, owned by doctor)
1319 Laura (vacant lot, owned by doctor, had house, demolished while doctor owned)
1325 Laura (the house this thread is about, owned by the doctor)
1331 Laura (a neighbor who wants the house demolished, spoke at HPC meeting)

So they all line up beginning from the east side of Laura from 3rd going north, and the lots extend from Laura Street to the alley.

Taxes are owed since 2009.
Even on the vacant lot.

Well if they're all lined up like ducks in a row that seems suspicious.

I notice in Springfield the houses are rather close to one another. That's kind of unappealing to some.

If he has two (or more) vacant lots adjoining one another, can he granted a zoning ordance to build one structure that occupies the lots? i.e. combine the lots. If so, that could be where this is going.

[ChriswUfGator]

Yeah, that's exactly what's going on.

This guy wants to combine the lots and build a big structure. Maybe apartments?

This discovery that all the property is actually adjoining, which isn't obvious just from the addresses, should IMMEDIATELY be brought up before the HPC. What he's doing is making excuses to get them demolished one by one, so he can combine the property and do something with it that he can't do presently with individual parcels.