2010-856- Transient Vendors in Jacksonville

[north miami]

My comments here swerve off thread -I was intending to delete,however the discourse may expand on the entities and the growing sense of futility referenced Re: 2010 856.

I so admire Noone and note that he has singularly recently ushered many on to our Downtown waters.A visit on the water with Noone has become a campaign item 'must do' for some.

I have tended not to place much interest in Vendor 2010 856 but upon reviewing various meeting minutes regarding such-even FIND,I see that at the very least 856 could be part of the 'puzzle' Noone references in private conversation.

In all things Environmental Policy and Politics I have learned that a fellow preferred politician can and will disappoint.
We can never do one thing.


The likes of the Alliance and Waterways Commission can prove obtuse-like getting stuck waist deep in muck....and tide coming in.

It is rare but OK to share that unanticipated drowning feeling............

The outlook and advocacy of the Alliance is simply reflective of the member local governments so often 'joined at the hip' with ardent development interests and political pressures that have in fact contributed to River system stress.In this regard,the Alliance is "safe", not 'extremist','radical'.Creating or empowering anything more would not have been tolerated.

For example,the Alliance has been politically bound against restoration of the major tributary of the St Johns River,the Ocklawaha River,which would entail the removal of Rodman Dam.
Ocklawaha restoration will spurn diverse recreation rather than the image of 'destroying' the Rodman Pool as narrow interest Rodman advocates so successfully argue.

Euphoric references to "Everglades Style" St Johns River restoration without acknowledgement and empowerment of comprehensive "systems" approach to a major tributary ring hollow.Right on cue with our own collective furious Water Wars focus on evil central Florida's overgrowth without recognition of our own growth boosterism and accommodation,the details embedded within a curiously obscure narrative,the committed impacts simply currently unseen.

This is what we do best.

[Noone]

16 days ago was the Board meeting of the St. Johns River Alliance representing 12 counties and the entire 310 miles of our St. Johns River our American Heritage River. In 11 days will be the next meeting of our Jacksonville Waterways Commission.

The April meeting of the St. Johns River Alliance was sparsley attended. When I arrived Ebeneezer with the City of Jacksonville was giving the River Accord report to those in attendence. It was a fast presentation and before he left I was able to ask him about a status report about 2010-856 and how the transient vendor will impact outfitters especially in Duval county if the ban is extended to one mile in light of a potential state designation of a Blueway Paddling Trail. His response back was alarming and reinforces to me that if the people of Jacksonville think for one second we are getting more access and economic opportunity to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River we will be getting less.

Councilman Redman, Do something.
Councilman Gaffney, Do something.

The state of Florida is watching.

I'm doing something. I'm voting for Hogan.

Redman and Gaffney don't even know the boundaries of their own districts. And Hogan makes both of them look like progressive geniuses. I'm sorry, but you're voting against yourself. I can't in good conscience continue to pay any attention to your posts on waterway access etc. anymore, when you're voting for the guy whose entire platform is eliminating public funding for the same programs you're on here supporting.

You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. You don't get to go all teabagger while still expecting public funding for things you personally enjoy, when the two are diametrically opposed to one another.

+1

-1

Stephen, lets kayak Hogans Creek on Mon. or Tues. morning. I remember the invitation that you had at Boomtown and I went and you were very gracious. I extend the same to you.

I'm not looking to have my cake and eat it too. But rather where does everyone have a seat at the table. Its a big table and I want to make sure that Chris has a seat. Whats wrong with that?   

[Noone]

Today at Rules and RCD 2010-856 was deferred. Saw Lori Boyer at both meetings and she is interested in seeing Hogan Creek. She is getting ready to lead in Dist.5

[Bativac]

Noone, I'm genuinely curious - why are you voting for Hogan?

I'm asking because I haven't made a decision yet - neither candidate excites me, and I've heard the pro-Brown side from everyone else on the MetroJacksonville boards.

What do you think Hogan will do for the river, and for the public pier?

[Noone]

Bativac, Lets paddle Hogans Creek and I'll share my concerns. I just noticed two new pieces of legislation and I'm asking why aren't these in Waterways. 2011-239, 2011-240.

In 8 days is the next meeting of the Jacksonville Waterways Commission.

Look at my post of the last Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting 21 days ago. We now have 2011-234.

I'll expand on Hogan and the pier on another thread. Bativac, Have you ever been to a Waterways meeting?   

[ChriswUfGator]

Noone, I'm genuinely curious - why are you voting for Hogan?

I'm asking because I haven't made a decision yet - neither candidate excites me, and I've heard the pro-Brown side from everyone else on the MetroJacksonville boards.

What do you think Hogan will do for the river, and for the public pier?

Maybe he's figuring Hogan + Hogan's Creek? Lol...

[Bativac]

Bativac, Lets paddle Hogans Creek and I'll share my concerns. I just noticed two new pieces of legislation and I'm asking why aren't these in Waterways. 2011-239, 2011-240.

In 8 days is the next meeting of the Jacksonville Waterways Commission.

Look at my post of the last Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting 21 days ago. We now have 2011-234.

I'll expand on Hogan and the pier on another thread. Bativac, Have you ever been to a Waterways meeting?   

I'd love to paddle the creek. My company handles disaster claims and with the recent storms in the Southeast, we're on permanent overtime. So I don't have time to paddle the creek anytime soon, nor have I had time to attend Waterways meetings (or local neighborhood watch meetings, city council meetings, etc - 60+ hour workweeks don't leave much spare time). But as soon as it lets up I'll shoot you an email.

Right now, though, I'd really like to hear about the positive effect that Mike Hogan could potentially have on the river, and on public access to the river via the public pier. Maybe it'll help me make a decision.

[Noone]

Bativac, I haven't ignored you. I'll share some posts on other threads that have made my decision of why I'm voting for Hogan.

They are incremental pieces of legislation that are making the decision for me as well as what is being said and whats not being said in key commission and committee meetings and also the slant on a report or study that has been done recently or in the past which is making the decision clear for me.

Bativac, More importantly I can't wait to meet you and paddle Hogan and Hogan creek. For the people an urban Waterway in Historic Springfield Dist.7 that leads to our St. Johns River an American Heritage River within our Downtown Jacksonville Overlay Zoning District. 2003-627.

[Noone]

Yesterday at Waterways it was a pleasure to see Doug Skiles and huge pats on the back for his comments at the end of the meeting during Public Comment.

It was a good meeting and continues to reinforce to me why the Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier needs to be open and used now and an amendment needs to be attached to 2010-856 that would exempt the Waterways of our St. Johns River our American Heritage River.

First up on the agenda was our St. Johns Riverkeeper Neil Armingeon and it was St. Johns River Issues. Before the meeting I asked him if he could mention the pier as an issue. It didn't happen.

He had 3 issues for the commission
1. Nutrient standards and the varied cost.
2. Georgia Pacific and the pipeline
3. Algae blooms-healthy river and how they will continue to work with agencies.

Next on the agenda was the real eye opener for me.

Moncrief Creek Dredging. Mike Swain president of the North Shore Neighborhood Association made a request for assistance for dredging in his neighborhood for waterfront residents. Over the years and seeing people go through the motions of the legislative process you can't help but sit in the audience and when the chair calls his name to come up to the podium and share your concern that you already know what the answer will be. Prior to the meeting I met Mike and I asked him how did you get on the agenda. He said that he had contacted John Crescimbeni and he put him on it. I like Crescimbeni.

Councilman Redman, Put me on the agenda. Better yet introduce legislation 2010-604 (Pier),2010-856.Please. Do something.

It was obvious that Mike had done his homework and contacted FIND and spoke with Mike Messiano the Duval county representative. A public access component wasn't close by so that limitted the opportunity for participation from FIND.

After his presentation one by one commission members shared with Mr. Swain that basically we can't do anything for you. Councilman Redman did not speak at all. Kristina Nelson with OGC mentioned 2010-725 and maybe you want to do a special assessment.

I've seen this repeated in previous meetings over the years. It reinforces that when you look at access issues how the most well intended and obvious requests can be crushed. So will this be the end for the North Shore Neighborhood Association? Pocket Parks-Pocket Piers?

During Public Comment I took a 3 issue approach like Neil
1. 2010-675 the USS Adams and a taxpayer bailout amendment. Tourism-A Good Idea
2. St. Johns River Alliance -They promote access and Preservation Parks in Duval county. Riverkeeper- Water quality.
3. 2010-856- Exempt the Waterways from a one mile ban. Shipyards III the pier needs to be separate. Use the River-Tourism a Good Idea.

Doug filled out a speaker card and shared his recent experiences Downtown on the River. Right before Doug there was another speaker that was also awesome and spoke about kayaking and access.

After the meeting I spoke with Don and Scott and all I can say is that I'm just in shock especially with the issue on the pier.

Palms Creek Fish Camp.

The state of Florida is watching.
 

Bativac this is another reason why I'm voting for Mike Hogan for Mayor.

City council meeting in less than 24 hours. Anyone going?
Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting Wed. at 9 council chambers. Anyone going?

Two pieces of legislation were introduced April 26 and have been fast tracked in 14 days and can be voted on and approved by council in between a Jacksonville Waterways Commission cycle. What a joke.

2011-239-Ready for council

2011-240-ready for council

Back to back pieces of legislation. But they didn't come before Waterways. Look them up. The Public Trust has just been totally crushed and destroyed in this community.

Palms Creek Fish Camp- Who gets the promotion?
                                    Who gets fired?

Bativac, more reasons why I'm voting Mike Hogan for Mayor.

The state of Florida is watching.

Be concerned and keep score.

 

[ChriswUfGator]

So Noone;

http://www.youtube.com/v/PkfluJDVThk

Why don't you explain to me what crackpipe you're smoking? Your pet project is conservation of our urban waterways and the creation of the public pier, all of which are Downtown, and yet you're voting for the same guy who just released the above video explaining in detail how he won't spend a dime on anything Downtown. WTF?

Seriously, how about a rational explanation here?

By voting for Hogan, you're doing as much as anyone to ensure the ongoing decline and destruction by neglect of McCoys and Hogans Creeks, and you've just screwed yourself, and the rest of us, out of the public pier. So unless you are able to produce some rational explanation for your complete and total self-destructive contradictions, there is no reason why anyone on this site should pay one iota of attention to your pleas for assistance on the urban waterways or the pier issue. If you're going to vote for the guy whose entire platform is not spending a dime on any of this stuff, then you're participating in causing the very problem you complain of.

[Noone]

Chris, Take a deep breath. Relax. Legislation is the dialogue of the community. Did you look up 2011-239 and 240? Will they be pulled in two hours befor the city council meeting? I hope they are. Introduced April 26 and ready for council vote in 2 hours.

2010-856 and a transient vendor ban of 1 mile.
2010-675 and one finance amendment.

Chris would you like to go kayaking on Hogans Creek? We'll make it happen.







 

[Noone]

Yesterday at Waterways it was a pleasure to see Doug Skiles and huge pats on the back for his comments at the end of the meeting during Public Comment.

It was a good meeting and continues to reinforce to me why the Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier needs to be open and used now and an amendment needs to be attached to 2010-856 that would exempt the Waterways of our St. Johns River our American Heritage River.

First up on the agenda was our St. Johns Riverkeeper Neil Armingeon and it was St. Johns River Issues. Before the meeting I asked him if he could mention the pier as an issue. It didn't happen.

He had 3 issues for the commission
1. Nutrient standards and the varied cost.
2. Georgia Pacific and the pipeline
3. Algae blooms-healthy river and how they will continue to work with agencies.

Next on the agenda was the real eye opener for me.

Moncrief Creek Dredging. Mike Swain president of the North Shore Neighborhood Association made a request for assistance for dredging in his neighborhood for waterfront residents. Over the years and seeing people go through the motions of the legislative process you can't help but sit in the audience and when the chair calls his name to come up to the podium and share your concern that you already know what the answer will be. Prior to the meeting I met Mike and I asked him how did you get on the agenda. He said that he had contacted John Crescimbeni and he put him on it. I like Crescimbeni.

Councilman Redman, Put me on the agenda. Better yet introduce legislation 2010-604 (Pier),2010-856.Please. Do something.

It was obvious that Mike had done his homework and contacted FIND and spoke with Mike Messiano the Duval county representative. A public access component wasn't close by so that limitted the opportunity for participation from FIND.

After his presentation one by one commission members shared with Mr. Swain that basically we can't do anything for you. Councilman Redman did not speak at all. Kristina Nelson with OGC mentioned 2010-725 and maybe you want to do a special assessment.

I've seen this repeated in previous meetings over the years. It reinforces that when you look at access issues how the most well intended and obvious requests can be crushed. So will this be the end for the North Shore Neighborhood Association? Pocket Parks-Pocket Piers?

During Public Comment I took a 3 issue approach like Neil
1. 2010-675 the USS Adams and a taxpayer bailout amendment. Tourism-A Good Idea
2. St. Johns River Alliance -They promote access and Preservation Parks in Duval county. Riverkeeper- Water quality.
3. 2010-856- Exempt the Waterways from a one mile ban. Shipyards III the pier needs to be separate. Use the River-Tourism a Good Idea.

Doug filled out a speaker card and shared his recent experiences Downtown on the River. Right before Doug there was another speaker that was also awesome and spoke about kayaking and access.

After the meeting I spoke with Don and Scott and all I can say is that I'm just in shock especially with the issue on the pier.

Palms Creek Fish Camp.

The state of Florida is watching.
 

Bativac this is another reason why I'm voting for Mike Hogan for Mayor.

City council meeting in less than 24 hours. Anyone going?
Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting Wed. at 9 council chambers. Anyone going?

Two pieces of legislation were introduced April 26 and have been fast tracked in 14 days and can be voted on and approved by council in between a Jacksonville Waterways Commission cycle. What a joke.

2011-239-Ready for council

2011-240-ready for council

Back to back pieces of legislation. But they didn't come before Waterways. Look them up. The Public Trust has just been totally crushed and destroyed in this community.

Palms Creek Fish Camp- Who gets the promotion?
                                    Who gets fired?

Bativac, more reasons why I'm voting Mike Hogan for Mayor.

The state of Florida is watching.

Be concerned and keep score.

 

Yesterday, the meeting of the Jacksonville Waterways Commission was HUGE.
2011-239
2011-240
2011-241
2011-242
2011-243
2011-244
2011-245
Bativac, and any other voters that are reading this and haven't voted yet these are more reasons why I'm voting for Mike Hogan as the next Mayor of Jacksonville.

The state of Florida is watching.

Be concerned and keep score.

Who's next? Anyone want to kayak Hogans Creek an urban Waterway destination in the heart of our vibrant Downtown?

[KuroiKetsunoHana]

noone:  how much clearer can we make this?  hogan has made no bones about his disinterest in spending a dime downtown.

(edited to remove the bit about the creek, because this isn't the thread about the creek--oops)

[fieldafm]

John Nooney has done more for the waterways of Jacksonville in the last decade outside anyone with a last name of Orthe or Armingeon. 

He is at every waterways commission meeting and virtually every city council meeting.  He has brought an impressive collection of city leaders(regardless of party position) out paddling on Hogans Creek.  He has been a tireless promoter of public access to our waterways, which is an unimaginabely thankless task.  His engagement with anyone standing in his path about waterway access is beyond reproach.  If you don't agree with his choice for mayor, so be it. 

But to tell a man that devotes untold hours to waterway issues that you aren't taking him seriously simply means you are squarely part of the problem, not the solution.

I am not a supporter of either person for mayor in this election.  I want to emphasize that to the tenth degree.  But to be fair, Mike Hogan has mentioned public access to waterways several times to sportsman groups over the course of this election.  I haven't heard Alvin Brown say that.  Perhaps he has and I just haven't heard it.  If he has, perhaps someone can post that up.  I did personally ask him once, and he said that we have to take a 'holistic approach' to downtown development... which didn't answer my question.  We do in fact have something(Downtown Master Plan) and it specifically addresses the Hogans Greenbelt and public river access. 

[cline]

But to be fair, Mike Hogan has mentioned public access to waterways several times to sportsman groups over the course of this election.

Perhaps you could specifiy what exactly he said regarding public access to waterways aside from just mentioning it.

He has made it quite clear in this election that he does not give a damn about downtown.  I take that to include the tributiaries that run through it.