CNN Reporting Bin Laden is dead

ChriswUfGator · May 03, 2011, 04:43:25 PM

Quote from: NotNow on May 03, 2011, 04:22:19 PM
Whatever you say. I was just pointing out a fact.

No, you were being disingenuous.

We all know the rationale for the war was the supposed Iraqi weapons program. So, I'll ask again, where were the WMDs? I'm not interested in material that the U.S. originally sold Hussein in the 70s and 80s, that was controlled by the UN, and that we already knew about. I asked you about the supposed black market purchases and the nuclear weapons program Bush alleged Hussein was running, but which turned out to be a complete fabrication.

So, again, where were those WMDs? Mustard gas from the 80s and un-enriched powerplant fuel from the 70s were never what we were talking about, was it? This is seriously ridiculous. You can just say "I was wrong" and "Bush was wrong" and "the War was wrong" it wouldn't kill you. Or you're going to be like my nutty marine-colonel uncle who 30 years later will still argue we needed to go into Vietnam because the government said so?

Jimmy · May 03, 2011, 04:46:20 PM

NotNow, The facts and reality as reported by those in the know do not appear to support your version. I've done a quick search of the site's archives and I see you've been around this merry-go-round with others in the past. I don't have the time or energy that they might to devote to another trip around - at least not at this moment.

I don't hate anyone, including the former President. He was a disaster of epic proportions for the United States and his reign was a blackeye for our country.

His successor has surpassed him, and his efforts, in a short period of time. President Obama has done in two years what Mr. Bush could not accomplish in two terms. Most of this is my opinion. I know you have a different one.

ChriswUfGator · May 03, 2011, 04:47:04 PM

Quote from: NotNow on May 03, 2011, 04:38:41 PM
Jimmy, at the risk of "obscuring" the purpose of this website, let me correct you. The material was documented and secured by U. N. inspectors...who were kicked out of the country prior to the second gulf war. One of the primary causes of the war was the refusal of Iraq to cooperate with the U. N. on WMD supervision. Once the inspectors were not allowed to inspect, and were actually kicked out of the country, then we don't know what the yellowcake is being used for, do we? This material was found and secured by the U. S. Army during the invasion. It was secured by teams of specialists, and was safely transported out of Iraq. That is exactly how it happened. I am sorry if the truth hampers your "Bush sucks" party, but facts are just that...facts. Nonpartisan, nonjudgmental...facts.

I can only assume that the Bush haters would agree that securing this precursor material and getting it out of Iraq was a good thing, as was destruction of chemical weapons, no matter who is the President. Just as I would assume that the Obama haters would agree that killing OBL and securing massive intelligence on AQ is a good thing, no matter who is President.

And you see no logical issue at all with arguing, simultaneously, that Hussein was sitting on 500+ tons of Yellowcake he bought from us in the 70s, but that for some reason, he was hell-bent on buying a comparatively miniscule amount in a nigerian black market that couldn't supply a fraction of what he already had? Makes total sense! I'm sure the CEO of Coca-Cola has to go to the Shell station to get a Coke too.

Timkin · May 03, 2011, 04:52:41 PM

Quote from: Jimmy on May 03, 2011, 04:46:20 PM
NotNow, The facts and reality as reported by those in the know do not appear to support your version. I've done a quick search of the site's archives and I see you've been around this merry-go-round with others in the past. I don't have the time or energy that they might to devote to another trip around - at least not at this moment.

I don't hate anyone, including the former President. He was a disaster of epic proportions for the United States and his reign was a blackeye for our country.

His successor has surpassed him, and his efforts, in a short period of time. President Obama has done in two years what Mr. Bush could not accomplish in two terms. Most of this is my opinion. I know you have a different one.

+1 certainly is how it appears to me, as well , although I admit I did not vote for Obama.

NotNow · May 03, 2011, 05:12:23 PM

I pointed out that there was 550 tons of yellow cake urainium in Iraq. It was not secured by anyone but the Iraqis. If you don't think that was a threat, fine. I don't want to do this over and over again either. IMHO, this is not a political issue, but here everything is a political issue. That's fine too. Only approved opinions stay up on this site anyway. "Facts and reality"? Really? Who are "those in the know"? I have a friend who was permanantly disabled on this mission. The news media is hardly "in the know".

Please continue with your echo chamber.

Timkin · May 03, 2011, 05:19:30 PM

Not in disagreement with you Not Now. Simply in agreement with Jimmy , that Obama's administration clearly accomplished what Bush's entire duration of Administration miserably failed at.

If they had 550 tons of Uranium, may I ask if you know where they got it? They sure did not process it out of the desert.

Many of your opinions are on the site . Many of mine (even if I am wrong ) are here as well.

NotNow · May 03, 2011, 05:53:36 PM

I understand Timkin. I simply tire of the same old partisan crap. Bush was not "bad" and Obama is not "perfect". Mr. Obama has pretty much continued Mr. Bush's policies in foreign policy. I do think that he has fought the Pakistani war much more intelligently by using drone strikes. But essentially, the prosecution of the wars have not changed much. Gitmo has been an exercise in vacillation, but we seem to have settled on continuing with Mr. Bush's plan there. Libya is new and I don't like it, but I will be the first to admit that I am not privy to the information that POTUS is, so I'll back up the President in these situations.

Most of us with a few years on this Earth should know that little in this world is black and white. I am not in 100% agreement with any politician, local, state, or federal. I think we owe it to our politicians to give them the benefit of the doubt. While I draw the line at screwing twenty one year old girls entrusted to your care, or casting aside a wife or wives without a care, not to mention storing cash in a freezer, I believe that these guys have a tough job and are often faced with no win decisions. It is easy to second guess Presidents, but we shouldn't change or forget the facts that were known at the time of the decision. They have to live with their legacy, much of it out of their control.

NotNow · May 03, 2011, 05:55:51 PM

Oh, and they did have the urainium, that is without question. It came from several sources in many different purchases.

NotNow · May 03, 2011, 05:58:23 PM

Quote from: stephendare on May 03, 2011, 05:55:08 PM
Quote from: NotNow on May 03, 2011, 05:12:23 PM
I pointed out that there was 550 tons of yellow cake urainium in Iraq. It was not secured by anyone but the Iraqis. If you don't think that was a threat, fine. I don't want to do this over and over again either. IMHO, this is not a political issue, but here everything is a political issue. That's fine too. Only approved opinions stay up on this site anyway. "Facts and reality"? Really? Who are "those in the know"? I have a friend who was permanantly disabled on this mission. The news media is hardly "in the know".

Please continue with your echo chamber.

Well then you must really hate W, who explicitly denied that any such thing was ever discovered.

StephenDare!, as you well know, the 550 tons of urainium is well documented. I'll leave the spin up to you guys, but there is no doubt that the material was there, it was secured and moved by the US.

NotNow · May 03, 2011, 06:05:06 PM

As I said, I'll leave the spin up to you guys. The facts (and if you listen to President Bush in your video, you might hear the qualifier) speak for themselves.

CityLife · May 03, 2011, 06:12:20 PM

I think we all forgot how ineloquent Bush was. It was painful to watch the above video and a couple others I just watched.

I don't know how to embed video on here (feel free edit it Stephen), but here is a funny little clip from a Bush/Kerry debate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRY_BOYeySc

The full clip of him saying how he's not worried about Bin Laden, is a great example of how clueless Bush was with wording things related to the Middle East:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PGmnz5Ow-o

Oh and I forgot just how big of a f up the Tora Bora operation was until I read about it again yesterday. We screwed up in a huge way there and should have easily killed UBL then, just a few months after 9/11. Possibly the biggest military blunder in US History.

ChriswUfGator · May 03, 2011, 06:20:32 PM

Quote from: NotNow on May 03, 2011, 05:12:23 PM
I pointed out that there was 550 tons of yellow cake urainium in Iraq. It was not secured by anyone but the Iraqis. If you don't think that was a threat, fine. I don't want to do this over and over again either. IMHO, this is not a political issue, but here everything is a political issue. That's fine too. Only approved opinions stay up on this site anyway. "Facts and reality"? Really? Who are "those in the know"? I have a friend who was permanantly disabled on this mission. The news media is hardly "in the know".

Please continue with your echo chamber.

Well, we can rehash it all you want until someone points out where those WMDs were that Bush cited as the justification for our going to war against Iraq. Maybe you'd care to explain how un-enriched powerplant fuel that we originally sold him in the 1970s or old mustard gas cannisters left over from the 1980s somehow *magically* constitute the nuclear weapons programs that Bush cited as his justification for war?

Because that was a complete fabrication, wasn't it?

NotNow · May 03, 2011, 06:26:30 PM

I hear an echo....

ChriswUfGator · May 03, 2011, 06:26:48 PM

Quote from: NotNow on May 03, 2011, 05:55:51 PM
Oh, and they did have the urainium, that is without question. It came from several sources in many different purchases.

Yeah, it was old fuel from 30 years ago, it was not a 1999 black market purchase in Nigeria, as Bush claimed.

This really blows your whole argument up, don't you see that? Bush claimed Saddam was trying to purchase a small amount of yellowcake uranium on the black market, and that was his main justification for war. Meanwhile, it turns out saddam already had almost 600 TONS of the stuff for the past 3 decades. Something tells me if he was going to make a bomb he would've gotten around to it sometime in the course of 3 decades, and it seems equally unlikely that a dictator sitting on 600 tons of yellowcake would bother trying to buy a few kilograms on a Nigerian black market. Or does any of this actually make sense to you? In that case I'd have no choice but to feel bad for you.

One more time, where was that weapons program again? They didn't find the thing they jutified war with, did they?

NotNow · May 03, 2011, 06:38:10 PM

I am not making an "argument". I pointed out that the Iraqi's had 550 tons of yellow cake urainium. It was secured by the US military and was transported out of the country. It is a simple fact.

There is no use in going over the history with all of you again. This is your website. Tell each other whatever you want. I am simply stating a fact and look at the little frenzy that it causes!