CNN Reporting Bin Laden is dead

[KenFSU]

Seeing the people in front of the White House and at Ground Zero did me good.  What about you guys?

I have very mixed feelings. I'm very happy that Bin Laden is dead. Personally though, I have a hard time throwing a party. In every situation, I have to ask myself if the means justified the ends. When I flash back on the ten years since 9/11, to the endless occupation of Afghanistan, Iraq, and now Pakistan; to the numerous gross human rights violations we've committed in the name of capturing Bin Laden; to the hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths that have come from our actions (some estimates up to 1,000,000 in Iraq alone); to the billions upon billions upon billions of dollars we have committed overseas while our infrastructure, schools, and health care systems crumble; to the blatant fear-mongering and disregard to the U.S. constitution; to the thousands of new potential terrorists we have created via situations like Abu Grahib; I don't know, my mood is more somber than celebratory. Killing Bin Laden came at a tremendous cost. To me, and this is just my personal opinion, dancing in the street and chanting USA seems rather flippant. Don't get me wrong, I totally understand the enthusiasm, but to me, it's not that black and white. I have a hard time separating the what from the how. My happiness comes less from the fact that the is finally dead, and more from the hope that maybe, somehow, this madness can all come to an end. And I will be dancing in the streets when our brave soldiers are out of Pakistan, out of Iraq, and out of Afghanistan.

[BridgeTroll]

My happiness comes less from the fact that the is finally dead, and more from the hope that maybe, somehow, this madness can all come to an end.

One madman has been deleted from the equation... undoubtedly there will be others.

[Doctor_K]

My happiness comes less from the fact that the is finally dead, and more from the hope that maybe, somehow, this madness can all come to an end.

One madman has been deleted from the equation... undoubtedly there will be others.

Well of course there will be.  

Until they surface, let's get the hell out of the places where we are ostensibly present in order to "wage the war on terror" or whatever.  

[BridgeTroll]

I agree Ken, if only Obama had been President in 01, this day wouldnt have been so long in coming.

Our SEALS, our military and our Intelligence Community could have done this at any time.  Imagine how different the world would be if this had happened in 03 instead of 11.

Where do you come up with this?

[Shwaz]

I agree Ken, if only Obama had been President in 01, this day wouldnt have been so long in coming.

Our SEALS, our military and our Intelligence Community could have done this at any time.  Imagine how different the world would be if this had happened in 03 instead of 11.

Where do you come up with this?

Another thread circling the drain of partisan bullshit.

This mission was 4 years in the making. It wasn't until the compound was built that a real opportunity surfaced. This is a great day for America not just one political party.

[KenFSU]

My happiness comes less from the fact that the is finally dead, and more from the hope that maybe, somehow, this madness can all come to an end.

One madman has been deleted from the equation... undoubtedly there will be others.

Hopefully, the next time a madman kills 3,000 of our citizens, we send in this same group of special forces to take him out, rather than waging war on half the middle east for ten years, sacrificing our values and founding principals, and nearly bankrupting the country. Hindsight is 20/20, no doubt, but hopefully we'll take some lessons away from all of this.

And the next time a madman does strike our nation, prompting tens of thousands of brave men and women to enlist in our military to help bring him to justice, hopefully we'll send them to the right fu**ing place. All these young soldiers who joined the military to combat Al Qaeda, only to be killed by an IED while patrolling an oil field in Baghdad, something tells me their parents aren't dancing in the streets this morning.

[ChriswUfGator]

I agree Ken, if only Obama had been President in 01, this day wouldnt have been so long in coming.

Our SEALS, our military and our Intelligence Community could have done this at any time.  Imagine how different the world would be if this had happened in 03 instead of 11.

Well we can't have the murder of 3,000 people interfering with Carlyle Group's profits, now can we?

Seriously, Stephen, I wonder what gets into you sometimes...

[Doctor_K]

My happiness comes less from the fact that the is finally dead, and more from the hope that maybe, somehow, this madness can all come to an end.

One madman has been deleted from the equation... undoubtedly there will be others.

Hopefully, the next time a madman kills 3,000 of our citizens, we send in this same group of special forces to take him out, rather than waging war on half the middle east for ten years, sacrificing our values and founding principals, and nearly bankrupting the country. Hindsight is 20/20, no doubt, but hopefully we'll take some lessons away from all of this.

And the next time a madman does strike our nation, prompting tens of thousands of brave men and women to enlist in our military to help bring him to justice, hopefully we'll send them to the right fu**ing place. All these young soldiers who joined the military to combat Al Qaeda, only to be killed by an IED while patrolling an oil field in Baghdad, something tells me their parents aren't dancing in the streets this morning.

+1!

[CityLife]

The compound was built in 2005. It wasn't discovered by us until August 2010. There is no doubt that we could have found Bin Laden and the compound earlier if we had put our full efforts towards Afghanistan/Pakistan, but I think Stephen may be using a little hyperbole there.

I read somewhere that the CIA unit that found the courier that led them to the site may have been created by Bush. So Obama may not be completely responsible for the kill. However, there is no doubt that he did a wonderful job of managing the operation, keeping things hush, and making sure that the attack wasn't rushed. You can't deny that it is a big win for Obama.

[JeffreyS]

I agree Ken, if only Obama had been President in 01, this day wouldnt have been so long in coming.

Our SEALS, our military and our Intelligence Community could have done this at any time.  Imagine how different the world would be if this had happened in 03 instead of 11.

Where do you come up with this?

Another thread circling the drain of partisan bullshit.

This mission was 4 years in the making. It wasn't until the compound was built that a real opportunity surfaced. This is a great day for America not just one political party.

Well said I would push the like button if there was one. I am normally pretty partisan but today I just feel American.

[CityLife]

Seeing the people in front of the White House and at Ground Zero did me good.  What about you guys?

I have very mixed feelings. I'm very happy that Bin Laden is dead. Personally though, I have a hard time throwing a party. In every situation, I have to ask myself if the means justified the ends. When I flash back on the ten years since 9/11, to the endless occupation of Afghanistan, Iraq, and now Pakistan; to the numerous gross human rights violations we've committed in the name of capturing Bin Laden; to the hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths that have come from our actions (some estimates up to 1,000,000 in Iraq alone); to the billions upon billions upon billions of dollars we have committed overseas while our infrastructure, schools, and health care systems crumble; to the blatant fear-mongering and disregard to the U.S. constitution; to the thousands of new potential terrorists we have created via situations like Abu Grahib; I don't know, my mood is more somber than celebratory. Killing Bin Laden came at a tremendous cost. To me, and this is just my personal opinion, dancing in the street and chanting USA seems rather flippant. Don't get me wrong, I totally understand the enthusiasm, but to me, it's not that black and white. I have a hard time separating the what from the how. My happiness comes less from the fact that the is finally dead, and more from the hope that maybe, somehow, this madness can all come to an end. And I will be dancing in the streets when our brave soldiers are out of Pakistan, out of Iraq, and out of Afghanistan.

Excellent post Ken. I feel the same way.

[fsujax]

The more I think about it, the more I realize at least something in this country is still working right! There has been so much negativity about everything, it just feels good to see our military and Specials Forces doing their job and getting it right!

[Shwaz]

The compound was built in 2005. It wasn't discovered by us until August 2010. There is no doubt that we could have found Bin Laden and the compound earlier if we had put our full efforts towards Afghanistan/Pakistan, but I think Stephen may be using a little hyperbole there.

I read somewhere that the CIA unit that found the courier that led them to the site may have been created by Bush. So Obama may not be completely responsible for the kill. However, there is no doubt that he did a wonderful job of managing the operation, keeping things hush, and making sure that the attack wasn't rushed. You can't deny that it is a big win for Obama.

Not from what I've read.
http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110502/inside-the-raid-that-killed-bin-laden-110502/20110502?hub=BritishColumbiaHome

according to a report in The New York Times, al Qaeda detainees at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, told U.S. military interrogators years ago that bin Laden so trusted the courier that he likely had him living alongside him. Then, four years ago, interrogators were able to extract the courier's name and aliases.

[ben says]

From Salon.com: http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/story/index.html?story=/opinion/greenwald/2011/05/02/bin_laden

The killing of Osama bin Laden is one of those events which, especially in the immediate aftermath, is not susceptible to reasoned discussion. It's already a Litmus Test event: all Decent People -- by definition -- express unadulterated ecstacy at his death, and all Good Americans chant "USA! USA!" in a celebration of this proof of our national greatness and Goodness (and that of our President). Nothing that deviates from that emotional script will be heard, other than by those on the lookout for heretics to hold up and punish. Prematurely interrupting a national emotional consensus with unwanted rational truths accomplishes nothing but harming the heretic (ask Bill Maher about how that works).

I'd have strongly preferred that Osama bin Laden be captured rather than killed so that he could be tried for his crimes and punished in accordance with due process (and to obtain presumably ample intelligence). But if he in fact used force to resist capture, then the U.S. military was entitled to use force against him, the way American police routinely do against suspects who use violence to resist capture. But those are legalities and they will be ignored even more so than usual. The 9/11 attack was a heinous and wanton slaughter of thousands of innocent civilians, and it's understandable that people are reacting with glee over the death of the person responsible for it. I personally don't derive joy or an impulse to chant boastfully at the news that someone just got two bullets put in their skull -- no matter who that someone is -- but that reaction is inevitable: it's the classic case of raucously cheering in a movie theater when the dastardly villain finally gets his due.

But beyond the emotional fulfillment that comes from vengeance and retributive justice, there are two points worth considering. The first is the question of what, if anything, is going to change as a result of the two bullets in Osama bin Laden's head? Are we going to fight fewer wars or end the ones we've started? Are we going to see a restoration of some of the civil liberties which have been eroded at the alter of this scary Villain Mastermind? Is the War on Terror over? Are we Safer now?

Those are rhetorical questions. None of those things will happen. If anything, I can much more easily envision the reverse. Whenever America uses violence in a way that makes its citizens cheer, beam with nationalistic pride, and rally around their leader, more violence is typically guaranteed. Futile decade-long wars in Iraq and Afghanistan may temporarily dampen the nationalistic enthusiasm for war, but two shots to the head of Osama bin Laden -- and the We are Great and Good proclamations it engenders -- can easily rejuvenate that war love. One can already detect the stench of that in how Pakistan is being talked about: did they harbor bin Laden as it seems and, if so, what price should they pay? We're feeling good and strong about ourselves again -- and righteous -- and that's often the fertile ground for more, not less, aggression.

And then there's the notion that America has once again proved its greatness and preeminence by killing bin Laden. Americans are marching in the street celebrating with a sense of national pride. When is the last time that happened? It seems telling that hunting someone down and killing them is one of the few things that still produce these feelings of nationalistic unity. I got on an airplane last night before the news of bin Laden's killing was known and had actually intended to make this point with regard to our killing of Gadaffi's son in Libya -- a mere 25 years after President Reagan bombed Libya and killed Gadaffi's infant daughter. That is something the U.S. has always done well and is one of the few things it still does well. This is how President Obama put it in last night's announcement:

    The cause of securing our country is not complete. But tonight, we are once again reminded that America can do whatever we set our mind to. That is the story of our history, whether it’s the pursuit of prosperity for our people, or the struggle for equality for all our citizens; our commitment to stand up for our values abroad, and our sacrifices to make the world a safer place.

Does hunting down Osama bin Laden and putting bullets in his skull really "remind us that we can do whatever we set our mind to"? Is that really "the story of our history"? That seems to set the bar rather low in terms of national achievement and character.

In sum, a murderous religious extremist was killed. The U.S. has erupted in a collective orgy of national pride and renewed faith in the efficacy and righteousness of military force. Other than that, the repercussions are likely to be far greater in terms of domestic politics -- it's going to be a huge boost to Obama's re-election prospects and will be exploited for that end -- than anything else.

[CityLife]

The compound was built in 2005. It wasn't discovered by us until August 2010. There is no doubt that we could have found Bin Laden and the compound earlier if we had put our full efforts towards Afghanistan/Pakistan, but I think Stephen may be using a little hyperbole there.

I read somewhere that the CIA unit that found the courier that led them to the site may have been created by Bush. So Obama may not be completely responsible for the kill. However, there is no doubt that he did a wonderful job of managing the operation, keeping things hush, and making sure that the attack wasn't rushed. You can't deny that it is a big win for Obama.

Not from what I've read.
http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110502/inside-the-raid-that-killed-bin-laden-110502/20110502?hub=BritishColumbiaHome

according to a report in The New York Times, al Qaeda detainees at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, told U.S. military interrogators years ago that bin Laden so trusted the courier that he likely had him living alongside him. Then, four years ago, interrogators were able to extract the courier's name and aliases.

They've been tracking the courier for years, but he didn't lead them to the compound until last fall. Obama even said so in his address last night.

Pretty much every news service is reporting it was built in 2005.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/02/osama-bin-laden-dead-abbottabad-mansion_n_856206.html