More Chat about Originalism, Constitutionalism and German Liberalism

[FayeforCure]

   Not embarrassed to be called a Republican at all Faye. Its just that I don't always agree with everything Republicans support. Just as I don't agree with everything Democrats support. And that's also why I have been leaning more towards Alvin Brown for Mayor. Not because I dislike Hogan. But I like, for the most part, what Alvin is saying.

I'm glad to see that...........and as you know that is exceedingly rare in Jax. Most Republicans would fear retribution from their Republican party if they cross party lines for a candidate.

One big thing I will disagree strongly with Demos on though is handouts for those "less fortunate". Luck had nothing to do with their bad situation. They made poor decisions and now they want someone else to bail them out. My dad always preached "pull yourself up by your own bootstraps" and that's exactly how I feel.
  I was in bad shape a long time ago. I was so bad off that I was living in a tent at a campground, sharing the public shower and working 3 jobs. I didn't even have a car. But I never once went looking for a govt handout. I worked hard to get myself out of that situation and now I have my own house, a car and a good job. Am I wealthy?? Not by a long shot. But I earned what I have and I'll be damned if the government is going to take it away and give it to someone "less fortunate". That's just a buzz word for lazy.
Flame away.

I don't like to flame away. I may present different view points, but I try to keep it educational  

Hmmmmm, luck has nothing to do with becoming disabled? Luck has nothing to do with becoming unemployed?

Maybe you should tell that to all those people who were just playing their sport and became permanently disabled, or the people that were working hard in their jobs and got laid off due to the recession. BTW, I am hereby banning the word "handout" like the Republicans have banned the word uterus. If you don't like help given by the government in a civilized society, you must not like the private charity organizations either.

"People forget why [government] programs were created. Not because Dems love big government, but because the private sector turned its back on people who who weren't profitable, particularly the old, sick, disabled and young. The GOP wants to return us to those days to let millionaires and bilionaires get ever richer."

So much for a paralyzed person pulling themselves up by the bootstraps! THAT is why we have tea Partier Rick Scott cutting help to the disabled by 15%. Who needs those folks anyway?

How can these people even be profitable to us? They just drain us!

You'll be damned if government is going to take money away (by tax) and give it to someone "less fortunate"?

But government "handouts" to corporations (costing us billions in taxpayer monies) is just fine and dandy for Republicans I assume..............like Gov. Rick Scott wanting to give all corporations that set up shop in Florida FREE ELECTRICITY, so our residential rates and/or taxes have to go up to pay for that.

Ironically, as much as Republicans HATE government, most Republicans in Jacksonville ( went through great lengths to) WORK FOR the government. Think all those in the military and the Republican controled local government.

So much for their REALLY believing that: "government is bad and private enterprise is good."

Hmmmm, I can chose to work for Wal-mart with barely any benefirs or I can join the military where I enjoy socialized medicine and a guaranteed retirement.................who would YOU rather work for?

[uptowngirl]

Faye, Faye, Faye.

First no one thinks disabled persons are a drain and should be cast away. I am betting everyone on this forum, and most likely in the world knows, cares about, or loves a disabled person. Most here would disagree with cuts to the truly disabled. The issue is anyone can claim to be disabled and pretty much get benefits/win a law suit- it is really sad because these are the people tea partiers will point out everytime.


Comparing working at Walmart to joining the military is sad also. You cannot even compare the two. Working at Walmart does not take me away from my family and friends, does not provide me travel around the world, and does not threaten my life as much. Joining the military is not just a "job" it is a service.

Most conservatives would agree with JG's comments, and it is at the root of their beliefs- as the shirt says "No thanks, I am a Republican and can take care of myself" you can add my family to that. People who truly need help should get it- people who have the ways and means (meaning able to get up and get a job) should take care of their own issues. Since when is it more acceptable to live off the backs of tax paying citizens than work at McDonald's?

[johnnyroadglide]

Bravo uptowngirl! You took the words right out of my mouth. faye of course I am not talking about the handicapped or the folks who lost their job through no fault of their own. I am talking about the moochers. And you know who I am talking about. Folks who never had a job and have no intention of finding work because they can mooch off the government. And I am not talking about charities who help folks out in need. Because those charities I can support and I decide who I want to support.  I do it because I want to. Not because the government wants to take my money and give it to who they want to. Thats the big difference.

[vicupstate]

Folks who never had a job and have no intention of finding work because they can mooch off the government.

I have never been on public assistance, unless you count a brief period on unemployment, but as I understand it,  there are limitations on how long someone can get public assistance.  Some people may stay on the system longer than they need to, but they can't stay on it indefinitely.  Not since welfare reform in 1994/5 anyway.

Also, AFDC, Food Stamps, etc. are not a big part of the budget.  Defense, Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, and interest on the debt are the vast majority of the budget.   

[finehoe]

I am talking about the moochers. And you know who I am talking about.

I sure do:

1)      Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009.  Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings.

2)      Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion.

3)      Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States, it received a $4.1 billion refund from the IRS.

4)      Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009.

5)      Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year.

6)      Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, it received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction.

7)      Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department.

      Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury.

9)      ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2007 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction.

10)  Over the past five years, Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent.

[BridgeTroll]

I am talking about the moochers. And you know who I am talking about.

I sure do:

1)      Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009.  Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings.

2)      Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion.

3)      Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States, it received a $4.1 billion refund from the IRS.

4)      Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009.

5)      Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year.

6)      Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, it received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction.

7)      Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department.

     Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury.

9)      ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2007 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction.

10)  Over the past five years, Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent.

Why fineho?  Who let them do this?  Is this illegal?

[BridgeTroll]

Hey, don't get too realistic finehoe.

They will realize how badly theyve been duped for the past 30 years.

Never realizing how sore their udders were from being milked coming and going by the real money masters, but complaining about giving another one of the milk cows a little room at the manger.'

Ah.  The undeserving poor, and the awful .001% of the budget that we spend on them.

Of course its pretty hard to notice when you spend most of your time bootlicking the wealthy in the hopes that maybe they will pat you on your good little head.

Says the guy who agrees with the tax loopholes and incentives the companies listed above are using...

[johnnyroadglide]

no finehoe thats not who I am talking about..but like good little liberals with their good little talking points you managed to avoid the point and bring up something totally different.

[BridgeTroll]

Get loafers Stephen...

Waaaaayyyy back in the GE fails to pay taxes thread.  'member?  The whole "dont close all those loopholes 'cause they might have unintended consequences" thing...

[dougskiles]

Are the 'services to the needy' only covered in the 2.4% Health & Human Services budget?

Who is getting the Welfare portion of the 11.2% Unemployment/Welfare/Other mandatory spending budget?

[FayeforCure]

Folks who never had a job and have no intention of finding work because they can mooch off the government.

I have never been on public assistance, unless you count a brief period on unemployment, but as I understand it,  there are limitations on how long someone can get public assistance.  Some people may stay on the system longer than they need to, but they can't stay on it indefinitely.  Not since welfare reform in 1994/5 anyway.

Also, AFDC, Food Stamps, etc. are not a big part of the budget.  Defense, Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, and interest on the debt are the vast majority of the budget.  

Thanks vicupstate, I have also been fiercely independent. That is why I once was a Republican.........because I thought the Party was about individuality, until I found out that they were really about sitting in judgement of others.

And I guess it's human nature. When I'm out and about looking for a handicapped parking space because my son is quadriplegic, and I see people parking their cars with handicapped signs I also start fuming when I see nothing wrong with them. Until I realize these people could be medicated for rheumatoid arthritis or have other invisible ailments that impair their function.

Let us celebrate the fact that we are able-bodied.

And shhhhhhht vicupstate don't take away their favorite beef ( I am vegetrian  ) You know it takes at least 20 years before new information actually catches on.

Since the 1994 reform, single moms with children can only stay on assistance for 2 years, and they better get some education going during those two years because otherwise they'll be stuck on minimum wage for the rest of their lives while their moms have to babysit their kids.

I am not talking about charities who help folks out in need. Because those charities I can support and I decide who I want to support.  I do it because I want to. Not because the government wants to take my money and give it to who they want to. Thats the big difference.

People have to be at your mercy? You are so omniscient to know exactly who deserves to be helped, and who doesn't? AND you have the time to inform yourself of such?

Bravo, for being such a help to others, when even the government makes disabled people wait over 2 years before they can get ANY disability or Medicare BENEFITS.( NOT handouts, since they paid into the system too)

uptowngirl, uptowngirl, uptowngirl, that brainwashing has really taken a hold of you!

Since when do we have capable people working at mcDonalds, besides the teenagers. Most are toothless and can barely walk or talk. And you STILL think there are people perfectly capable of working that are mooching off the system?

What system?

This fixation on so-called "people mooching off the system" has so effectively distracted you all from the REAL mooching that is being done: ie the corporate mooching off our system to the tune of billions of dollars at tax payer expense. You are all being ripped off, BUT not by the people you are soooooooo fixated on.

But hey corporate handouts are ok, even the ones that are illegally obtained ie STOLEN like Rick Scott's mega-million dollar one. When are you guys going to finally wake up? You've collectively been had.

[BridgeTroll]

I am talking about the moochers. And you know who I am talking about.

I sure do:

1)      Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009.  Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings.

2)      Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion.

3)      Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States, it received a $4.1 billion refund from the IRS.

4)      Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009.

5)      Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year.

6)      Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, it received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction.

7)      Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department.

      Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury.

9)      ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2007 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction.

10)  Over the past five years, Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent.

Why fineho?  Who let them do this?  Is this illegal?

Re: In a Remarkable Show of Bi Partisanship... GE Pays No Tax on 14 Billion Profit.
« Reply #134 on: March 31, 2011, 07:58:36 AM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic 

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http://www.politifact.com/ohio/statements/2011/mar/15/marcia-fudge/rep-marcia-fudge-says-some-largest-corporations-pa/


Quote
... Between 1998 to 2005, GAO found that about 72 percent of large foreign controlled companies and 55 percent of large U.S. controlled companies reported zero tax liability for at least one year. About 57 percent of foreign controlled large companies and 42 percent of U.S. large companies paid no taxes in two or more years, and a third of the foreign companies and one quarter of their U.S. counterparts paid no taxes for at least four of those years. Just 45 percent of large U.S. companies and 28 percent of foreign companies reported a tax liability for each of the eight years. The report defined large companies as those with at least $250 million in assets, or at least $50 million in receipts

When GAO factored smaller companies into the mix, it found a higher overall proportion who didn’t pay taxes. Throughout the eight years the study examined, the overall percentage of non-tax-paying foreign and U.S. controlled companies never fell beneath 60 percent annually.
The report said that corporations may not pay U.S. income taxes for a variety of reasons, including current-year operating losses, tax credits, and multinational corporations shifting income to lower tax jurisdictions.

"Some corporations could have zero income before deducting expenses and others could have zero net income after deducting expenses, both of which could result in no tax liability," the report said.

After the GAO report was released, U.S. Chamber of Commerce Chief Economist Martin Regalia released a statement that stressed the difference between companies not having a tax liability and shirking taxes that are owed.

"The GAO report doesn’t say that businesses aren’t paying taxes they owe," Regalia’s statement said. "Rather, it says that some corporations did not have tax liabilities â€" in other words, they did not owe taxes. So how do corporations avoid having tax liabilities? They don’t make any profits. You can have many billions of dollars in revenue and still have R&D, labor-related and other expenses that are larger than your revenues â€" and therefore no ‘income’ to tax.

"In sum, the idea that there is a large pool of corporations not paying taxes that they legally owe is just incorrect," Regalia concluded.

The nation’s big business representatives don’t dispute the report’s findings, even as they stress it should not be misconstrued to mean businesses are evading taxes they owe. During her television appearance, Fudge stressed that the businesses who don’t pay taxes aren’t cheating or doing anything wrong.

[finehoe]

no finehoe thats not who I am talking about..but like good little liberals with their good little talking points you managed to avoid the point and bring up something totally different.

Totally Different?  How is not paying billions in taxes and in fact being given rebates on those non-paid taxes not "mooching"?  Suppose you be a good little teabagger and tell us how a person who lost their job and is getting $275 a week is oh-so-horrible but the examples I gave are A-OK in your little conservative world.

[FayeforCure]

I am talking about the moochers. And you know who I am talking about.

I sure do:

1)      Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009.  Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings.

2)      Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion.

3)      Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States, it received a $4.1 billion refund from the IRS.

4)      Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009.

5)      Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year.

6)      Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, it received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction.

7)      Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department.

     Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury.

9)      ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2007 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction.

10)  Over the past five years, Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent.

Why fineho?  Who let them do this?  Is this illegal?

BT, have you ever heard of Republicans regulating or enforcing ANYTHING (except for abortions)?

In fact it's Dems that get flack for regulating and trying to hold corporations accountable for the damage they do to our society. ( you are right Clinton should have vetoed the repeal of the Glass Steagall Act though, that did away with consumer protections post 1930s crash)

And you are right, that by now both parties have been thoroughly corrupted except for a very few Dems.

But Republicans have NEVER protected citizen and/or consumers EVER from rampant corporate abuses.

[FayeforCure]

no finehoe thats not who I am talking about..but like good little liberals with their good little talking points you managed to avoid the point and bring up something totally different.

Totally Different?  How is not paying billions in taxes and in fact being given rebates on those non-paid taxes not "mooching"?  Suppose you be a good little teabagger and tell us how a person who lost their job and is getting $275 a week is oh-so-horrible but the examples I gave are A-OK in your little conservative world.

+1000