More Chat about Originalism, Constitutionalism and German Liberalism

[Timkin]

I am talking about the moochers. And you know who I am talking about.

I sure do:

1)      Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009.  Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings.

2)      Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion.

3)      Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States, it received a $4.1 billion refund from the IRS.

4)      Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009.

5)      Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year.

6)      Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, it received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction.

7)      Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department.

      Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury.

9)      ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2007 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction.

10)  Over the past five years, Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent.

Let me just take a stab at this..... Is the reason all these companies make these huge ass profits and not only do not pay taxes but also get tax credits is because they control our President/Government/Congress?   just curious.

[uptowngirl]

HA, again both sides are completely corrupt. Of course it sounds better to beat up on corporations who are legally taking advantage of loopholes created by both the democrats and republicans- it is good story to support the poor underdog.

everyone needs to get their snouts out of the trough, welfare and government assistance was set up for short term use to get people back on their feet. I know, I know reform limits usage to two years, but we all know that is BS- hell my neighbor has been getting foodstamps and assistance for over 10 years! So it is complete BS to throw that out there. No one is enforcing it, and there is not one damn thing wrong with this woman, not one. In fact she does work, for cash.

Scream and holler about the corporations all you want, but the difference there is at least they provide freaking jobs and some type of consumer product.

Lord, I must be getting old, I have no patience for eitherside of this argument- talk about brainwashing- both parties are corrupt, they are bought, sold, and paid for- both, everyday. In fact I might say the democrats may be worse- they owe corporations AND the poor. If both sides would get as passionate about changing the corruption across the board, we MIGHT be Abel to live in a better world for everyone.

And Faye I sure as hell think I have some RIGHT to determine what I do with my money. Personally I do not want to give it away to "moochers" whether they be corporations or individuals.

[uptowngirl]

no finehoe thats not who I am talking about..but like good little liberals with their good little talking points you managed to avoid the point and bring up something totally different.

Totally Different?  How is not paying billions in taxes and in fact being given rebates on those non-paid taxes not "mooching"?  Suppose you be a good little teabagger and tell us how a person who lost their job and is getting $275 a week is oh-so-horrible but the examples I gave are A-OK in your little conservative world.

+1000

I guess it is similar to not working and be able to get a tax refund- of course that little program also keeps a lot of tax preparation places in business, especially the ones that let you take a "loan" on that refund you did not even pay in.

[finehoe]

Of course it sounds better to beat up on corporations who are legally taking advantage of loopholes created by both the democrats and republicans- it is good story to support the poor underdog.

The unemployed are legally taking advantage of the insurance system set up to help people who have lost their jobs.  But its a good story to refer to them as moochers "at the trough."

I sure as hell think I have some RIGHT to determine what I do with my money. Personally I do not want to give it away to "moochers" whether they be corporations or individuals.

How interesting that you might not even have a job (and thus money) if the evil government hadn't bailed out the industry you work for.

[finehoe]

I guess it is similar to not working and be able to get a tax refund- of course that little program also keeps a lot of tax preparation places in business, especially the ones that let you take a "loan" on that refund you did not even pay in.

Uh, no it's nothing like that.  If you're not getting a refund, those places will not loan you a thing.

[Timkin]

[uptowngirl]

Of course it sounds better to beat up on corporations who are legally taking advantage of loopholes created by both the democrats and republicans- it is good story to support the poor underdog.

The unemployed are legally taking advantage of the insurance system set up to help people who have lost their jobs.  But its a good story to refer to them as moochers "at the trough."

I sure as hell think I have some RIGHT to determine what I do with my money. Personally I do not want to give it away to "moochers" whether they be corporations or individuals.

How interesting that you might not even have a job (and thus money) if the evil government hadn't bailed out the industry you work for.

Absolutely not true fine ho. You do not ruly know anything about my company's "bailout" and prove it over and over again. BTW, my skills are not relegated to the financial industry, in fact the main reason I am still at my job is I am too lazy and too busy to start at a new place. I get offers all the time from a wide variety of industries. I suppose with my educational back ground I could always be a teacher, and well I could always finish up my PHD, but I am paid better doing what I do than a professor. Oh and did I mention I did all this on my own- no student loans, housing, welfare, as a single mother at the age of 18? I am sure that type of self efficiency deserves your derision. I obviously do not fit the mold of liberals, I didn't need anyone to "save me" I just did it the old fashion way, with determination and being self efficient. I never thought anyone, including my family or ex-husband owed me anything. After all If I can afford a new car and a big screen TV I can most likely pay my own rent and buy my own food. It is just too bad that so many depend on the government for everything, if it all disappeared tomorrow I could still survive, but I can't say that for at least half our population.

[johnnyroadglide]

no finehoe thats not who I am talking about..but like good little liberals with their good little talking points you managed to avoid the point and bring up something totally different.

Totally Different?  How is not paying billions in taxes and in fact being given rebates on those non-paid taxes not "mooching"?  Suppose you be a good little teabagger and tell us how a person who lost their job and is getting $275 a week is oh-so-horrible but the examples I gave are A-OK in your little conservative world.

Teabagger??? Okay whatever..go back to drinking your koolaid and live in your perfect little dream world. I have better things to do with my time then try and discuss anything with a closed mind.
Goodbye and good luck to all.

[uptowngirl]

no finehoe thats not who I am talking about..but like good little liberals with their good little talking points you managed to avoid the point and bring up something totally different.

Totally Different?  How is not paying billions in taxes and in fact being given rebates on those non-paid taxes not "mooching"?  Suppose you be a good little teabagger and tell us how a person who lost their job and is getting $275 a week is oh-so-horrible but the examples I gave are A-OK in your little conservative world.

Teabagger??? Okay whatever..go back to drinking your koolaid and live in your perfect little dream world. I have better things to do with my time then try and discuss anything with a closed mind.
Goodbye and good luck to all.

+1000 Too bad Jaxoutloud is gone :-(

[Timkin]

I know    I am really bummed that JOL is no longer

[uptowngirl]

Oh Timkin, you are my favorite liberal!

[Timkin]

  thanks Uptowngirl..   M-train hates me.  but Im glad someone  thinks im pretty alright

[finehoe]

I am sure that type of self efficiency deserves your derision.

Not at all.  I think it wonderful you have created the kind of life you want for yourself.

But you seem to be saying that when government collects taxes in order to help the poor, that it is virtually stealing. Nothing could be further from the truth.

History has proven that when government looks the other way and permits individuals to make money at any cost, the brightest and most gifted may well rise to the top, but those at the bottom of the economic ladder will frequently be left behind. That is why government in a capitalistic society such as ours has a duty to keep the playing field as level as possible for everyone, not just the rich and powerful.

Unrestrained and unregulated capitalism at its worst leads to the enslavement of the poor, not their liberation. The fact of the matter is that individuals alone cannot always alleviate the increasing poverty, hunger and homelessness that plague our nation. While individuals can and should help, it has always been the role of government to assist its citizens to accomplish what individuals cannot do alone. The elimination of poverty is one such governmental responsibility.  Government is but an organized group of individuals, with certain powers and responsibilities bestowed upon it by the people.

[NotNow]

The Federal Government has no constitutional authority to be in the charity business.

Nor does it have the authority to "bail out" private businesses.

Or "favor" any person or other entity in taxation.

Thus, I am in favor of some version of the "fair tax".

[FayeforCure]

The Federal Government has no constitutional authority to be in the charity business.

Nor does it have the authority to "bail out" private businesses.

Or "favor" any person or other entity in taxation.

Thus, I am in favor of some version of the "fair tax".

Oh, don't even get me started on the radio personality and dentist dreamed up fair tax nonsense. That would be as bad as having a guy with a degree in monkey business run Jacksonville!!

Fair Tax favors the rich, after all they use a smaller portion of their vast fortunes for consumption thus rendering their tax a lower percentage of their income. No new houses would be build because resales are tax free whereas newly built houses are not. etc, etc, etc


As to the Preamble of our Constitution, none of your selfish babble can be found there ( ah you, uptowngirl, are one of those teenagers who became pregnant eh?):

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

As I said to johnyglide, you, uptowngirl and NotNow are not omniscient to determine who is deserving and who is not.