Outer Beltway Plan Up In Smoke!

[tufsu1]

I fully expect the Branan Field Expressway to be complete from I-10 to SR 21 by 2020...and I would not be surprised if it isn't even a toll road

Do you expect it to be 100% taxpayer funded or a private entity to come in, take over and reimburse the public for the money spent to date?

funded through the FDOT work program...so yes, taxpayer funded

[tufsu1]

Regardless of who and how it is funded- there will always be the harmful impacts of which I am confident most MJ posters are unaware- and the fact that the boosters got away with erroneous promotions of viable "alternate" and "alleviation" to Blanding.That aspect alone is worth "proving"-bring it on!!

careful..it is actually quite easy to show traffic alleviation (at least in the short-tetrm) on Blanding as a result of construction of the new expressway.

[north miami]

My sentiment on the whole dumb project is the angle they are projecting the masses to travel. Granted there is probably a demand for a direct route to Cecil from Clay, but the demand into Jacksonville has to be exponentially higher.

Ocklawaha, thank you for presenting a reasonable alternative to the problems on Blanding, and the "hated" beltway. I wish I had your skills at presentation, I would love to present a graphic of what I think the proper route for a Blanding "pressure value" route would be.

Hogwash.Face it- stunning political,planning trip ups.As former Clay Planning Director Dick Post warned-we indeed Bought The Farm.

Proof positive too many posts on too many subjects-and master of few.

There is no alternative to Blanding thanks to geopgraphy-broad wetland belts that present challenges both regulatory and costly if deemed buildable.Consider the horrendous cost of proposed Kingsley Ave West extension-basically a bridge across a broad wetland belt.
Recall earlier NM posts buried within this MJ pile- early 1970's Clay County promotions of an alternate to Blanding-this truly an alternate-a new alignment to the west of Blanding and paralleling Blanding-this concept imploded due to opposition in Ridgewood, in the path of the proposed route-so the path was shifted further west....and right in to the broad Little Black creek wetland belt.No go.
The closest alternative alignment had to skip farther to the west,to the next upland ridge,a north south route (recall basic Kindergarten lesson here; after all Blanding is Northeasterly/Southwesterly)-due mostly to accommodate Gulfstream's 9,000 acre development proposal.Enter Bruce Smathers,the likes of Reinhold et al.

[north miami]

Regardless of who and how it is funded- there will always be the harmful impacts of which I am confident most MJ posters are unaware- and the fact that the boosters got away with erroneous promotions of viable "alternate" and "alleviation" to Blanding.That aspect alone is worth "proving"-bring it on!!

careful..it is actually quite easy to show traffic alleviation (at least in the short-tetrm) on Blanding as a result of construction of the new expressway.

Tufsu it is the likes of your outlook that has served the public it's own head.
Do you realize how short sighted your premise is? The BC boosters were much more sophisticated.
Oh pardon me-I am always thinking not so short term.And justice.

I know all about "network alleviation".

Course there was a dose of short term image.The best short term alleviation image was when MPO Calvin Burney stated 30,000 cars a day would use Brannon/Chaffee "as soon as it opens".Yea!!
The reference was to 30,000 ADT- and a great deal of the future ADT was to come from future new development Brannon Chaffee would create.
The Burney episode is a matter of public record/Florida Times Union and personal file.It's simply a wacky episode within a decades long narrative.

Losing the Brannon Chaffee Illusion will be more valuable to future planning efforts elsewhere than thwarting BC buildout.

[jandar]

If you don't build the frontage rd for Branan Field, you will be limiting access as SR23 is built down to Blanding.

Without the frontage rd, people in the neighborhoods off of Branan Field will have to route down by Tynes to Old Jennings and then back onto SR23.

The current 2 lane rd is going to be either part of the new 4 lane SR23 or taken away altogether.

Is it a wise idea? Who's to say. Either way, SR23 from I-10 to Blanding cannot be completed properly. And yes, SR23 is a viable route for those from Clay County into Downtown Jacksonville via I10. Its quicker if you are further south on Blanding to go south to Brannan Field and back up to get to I10 than it is to go Blanding to I-295 most times due to traffic.

You want to keep downtown going/rebuilding? Don't force all of Clay County to keep commuting to the southside, you will lose some of your workforce. Right now its a choice of two evils, Blanding and the Buckman, or Blanding/US17 to downtown.

Ask around your offices, you'd be surprised at the number of clay county residents working there.

And people won't leave their cars as quickly as a lot on this forum assume. The cars might get smaller and slower, but people will still have them.

[thelakelander]

At some point, growth needs to pay for itself.  Has a study been done to show what the overall cost (capital costs, long term annual maintenance costs, strain on public safety and services, etc.) of upgrading SR 23 to freeway status will be?  Also, has there been any consideration to placing tolls (even if a private entity does not pop up) so that those who live in the area pay their fair share for their infrastructure needs?

[rainfrog]

Not to make every one of my posts related to the latest census data, but there are 4 census tracts along Blanding (between SR-23 & I-295) that each lost 10-20% of their population from 2000-2010. Maybe we can let the population bleed some more, become less middle-class, and have more retail die, and then use eminent domain to plop down a good ol' fashion 20th Street-style expressway through town! Problem solved!

[Gators312]

I'm surprised no one has touched on the new County Manager being the former head of the FDOT Stephanie Kopelousos.  Her family is well connected into the fabric of the Clay Good Ol' Boy network and the boosters.  They can't let this project die, they have spent decades positioning their assets while planning this road to make the most money for their interests.  FDOT loves building roads, who better to get to run the county with connections to people who love building roads.

Projects like Saratoga Springs DRI, Reynolds Industrial Park, Clay County Port and more GOB holdings are what has this project crossing the river so far south. 

For years it was sold to Clay County residents as a cure to Blanding & the Buckman, now it's being sold as an economic stimulator....Brilliant! 

[Jumpinjack]

Gator, you touched on all the reasons why this project may never go away.

[tufsu1]

Gator, you touched on all the reasons why this project may never go away.

Interestingly Kopelousos slowed the project down while at FDOT...in fact, the local district at the time secretary was very annoyed that she refused to put the job out to bid.

[buckethead]

Her effected assets weren't properly arranged yet?

Just throwing it out there. Cynical? Yes.

Apologies if I am off the mark.

[tufsu1]

Being cynical myself, it is possible she withheld the advertisement because she knew nobody would bid....and if that had happened publicly, it might have killed the project once and for all.

[jandar]

Let the part from Blanding to St Johns County die, finish the part from Blanding to I-10.

[stjr]

What would $22 million do for our schools right now?  Is this road improvement so important that it should come before education?

Scott's agenda appears to be reducible to one item:  Unfettered growth at warp speed.  Axe all other budget priorities, kill all environmental and growth management regulations, build roads at any cost, eliminate all taxes that might distract from growth at any cost, deregulate developers and their cronies, rape all water and other natural resources to enable growth, growth, growth, etc.  You get the idea.

What Scott fails to see is, by destroying quality of life, he may be setting a table for visitors who will never come.  Florida may become the biggest collection of ghost towns ever assembled.

Scott is turning out to be a simpleton of the first magnitude.  Even members of his own party can't "reason" with him.  That's the danger of blind party loyalty.  Just think what might have been had Alex Sink received just 1% more of the vote.

[dougskiles]

What would $22 million do for our schools right now?

How about $22 million that we get to decide what to do with locally?  How often do we hear Scott and his followers cry about Washington telling them what to do and how to spend "our" money - only to turn around and do the very same thing to the state's local governments?