Let's Secede!

[wsansewjs]

Having a large religion-based portion of the Jacksonville's voting populations would go against the idea of separation of church and state in the first place. It is like drinking your own piss.

-Josh

huh?  one's religious beliefs do not have to do with voting and governing...I can keep them separate just fine and I'm sure others can as well

I never said religious beliefs. I said religion-based institution. When a large institution has a large influence on its people, it tends to trickles down to the government-level where the decisions are made to support THAT institution indirectly.

I mean FBC is fine, but look at how fast and big they have grown into the Downtown core.

Having a large religion-based portion of the Jacksonville's voting populations would go against the idea of separation of church and state in the first place. It is like drinking your own piss.

-Josh

 I am not clear on what you are trying to say...it seems that taxing religious institutions would mix church and state.

What I meant to say that the religious institutions are trying to influence or push the government to change the rules or procedures that would protect or favor them.

-Josh

[peestandingup]

Having a large religion-based portion of the Jacksonville's voting populations would go against the idea of separation of church and state in the first place. It is like drinking your own piss.

-Josh

 I am not clear on what you are trying to say...it seems that taxing religious institutions would mix church and state.

Its already mixed, just not on paper.

[NotNow]

oh. ok...that makes sense

Under current law, churches are (supposedly) not allowed to be politically active and the state can not tax churches...thus, a separation of church and state.

[NotNow]

Having a large religion-based portion of the Jacksonville's voting populations would go against the idea of separation of church and state in the first place. It is like drinking your own piss.

-Josh

  I am not clear on what you are trying to say...it seems that taxing religious institutions would mix church and state.

Its already mixed, just not on paper.

If your looking for perfect...

It is done as well here as I have seen.

[wsansewjs]

oh. ok...that makes sense

Under current law, churches are (supposedly) not allowed to be politically active and the state can not tax churches...thus, a separation of church and state.

So much for the consolidation state of Jacksonville.

-Josh

[NotNow]

  That makes no sense either Josh.

[thelakelander]

Might want to check your tax base.

Concentrate on redistricting.

Consolidation is the best thing that ever happened to this city.

actually the tax base of preconsolidation jax isn't too bad...includes Springfield, san Marco, Riverside, Avondale, and part of Ortega.

A preconsolidated jax would include a chunk of Jaxport, several Northside and Westside manufacturing plants, private port terminals, several railyards and downtown in a very compact area.  Like Tufsu1 has stated, that's not a bad thing as far as a core area of 31 or 32 square miles goes.  On the other hand, the rest of the city would be pretty screwed.  There are a lot of service oriented corridors, the Southside office parks and some isolated industries but the amount of ground to cover and spread public resources would still be over 700 square miles.

[wsansewjs]

  That makes no sense either Josh.

I was being sarcastic.

-Josh

[NotNow]

Might want to check your tax base.

Concentrate on redistricting.

Consolidation is the best thing that ever happened to this city.

actually the tax base of preconsolidation jax isn't too bad...includes Springfield, san Marco, Riverside, Avondale, and part of Ortega.

A preconsolidated jax would include a chunk of Jaxport, several Northside and Westside manufacturing plants, private port terminals, several railyards and downtown in a very compact area.  Like Tufsu1 has stated, that's not a bad thing as far as a core area of 31 or 32 square miles goes.  On the other hand, the rest of the city would be pretty screwed.  There are a lot of service oriented corridors, the Southside office parks and some isolated industries but the amount of ground to cover and spread public resources would still be over 700 square miles.

They weren't talking about preconsolidated city limits, they were talking Springfield.  You would still pay county taxes, Duval school taxes, and use JEA services.  You would just have to add on a new municiple tax to pay Audrey and all of the other jobs you might want to create. 

I'll say it again, consolidation is the best thing that ever happened to Jax.  We just need to hold our local government responsible.

[danno]

Just get over the whole chuch, religion thing! enough already. I am so sick of it popping up in every freaking thread.

I was wondering how long it would take.

[jaxpaxpastor]

As I suggested: "Let's secede!"  Or let's, at least, make a lot of noise and publicity in the process.

As regards the separation of church vs. state, while we may be relative newcomers here, it didn't take us long to understand where the JAX power is based.  Isn't it amazing how one joins a certain church and his (not her!) political future is pretty much assured?

And in terms of that particular religious franchise: Is it legal/fair/allowed (whatever) that block-after-block of prime downtown real estate is owned by that entity (and not taxed), while it collects all those parking fees -- money! -- from those seeking to temporarily place their vehicles there during non-worship hours?

~Pastor, Christ Church of Peace
(jaxpaxpastor)

[NotNow]

It is legal/fair/allowed.  Your church can buy property too.

[thelakelander]

I'll say it again, consolidation is the best thing that ever happened to Jax.  We just need to hold our local government responsible.

I agree.  We've done a pretty poor job of leveraging the benefits of consolidated government.

[dougskiles]

Perhaps we keep the good parts and work on fixing the bad.

The problem with consolidation, from my perspective, is that it restricts a neighborhood's ability to control more of their destiny.  Park improvements, transportation improvements and community centers that directly impact quality of life are difficult to gain political approval of the entire city's elected leaders - but that is what has to happen.

Why not allow the people in one area to decide if they want their tax dollars to be used for a new aquatic complex?  Why not allow one part of town to reduce their taxes and correspondingly reduce the amount of services they receive.  Some areas wouldn't mind paying a little extra in property tax or sales tax for a new boat ramp and better drainage.

There is no question that we need to redraw the council districts.  And I would like to see it go a little further by allowing neighborhoods to not only have an equal vote in matters concerning the entire city, but to have the ability to structure themselves that is appropriate with the type of neighborhood.  I think everyone would agree that urban, suburban and rural areas have very different issues.

[sheclown]

First Baptist was here when no one else wanted to be.  Just sayin'