Proposed Super Bowl Legacy: Downtown Gathering & Event Mega-Site

[tufsu1]

In the end it won't matter what any of us drew or said that day....the firm that is doing the design was hired by the City....so they will do as they are instructed (unless we somehow changed the Mayor's mind)....so chances are that Kids Kampus will be moved and that there will be no discussion of the badnshell, WJCT, the elevated expressway, or skyway/streetcar.

[thelakelander]

I think this fight on this issue will revolve around saving Friendship Fountain, if the plan attempts to cram Kids Kampus next to MOSH.

[Ocklawaha]

In the end it won't matter what any of us drew or said that day....the firm that is doing the design was hired by the City....so they will do as they are instructed (unless we somehow changed the Mayor's mind)....so chances are that Kids Kampus will be moved and that there will be no discussion of the badnshell, WJCT, the elevated expressway, or skyway/streetcar.

On this we agree completely! It's a done deal in Peytons mind, we were just window dressing.

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

WJCT is another whole disaster waiting to happen. As it is they have the only decent sound stage in the City. When we shot the Streetcar vs Skyway shots for "GOOD MORNING AMERICA" on ABC, we were up the street in a very restricted space.

This begs the attention of the Mooneyhans and their partner producers. Jacksonville is lightyears cheaper to film in then Los Angeles, and also much cheaper to film in then Orlando or Miami. We can have the draw for all the studios, but tearing down one sound stage before Mooneyhan or someone else gets another up and running is a guarantee for failure.

OCKLAWAHA

[rjp2008]

The Mooneyhan crew appears to have it's eyes on several locations - some spots at the Beaches, a prime spot on the Southside, and two downtown (Shipyards and JEA Site). Initially however, I think they are looking to film in a flexed space (the Prime Osborn as a sound stage) until the time comes to build on one or all of those spots.

[Jdog]

I'll try to prime the pump on this thread.  Here's my humble input:

I think speaking solely in the language of quality of life (I agree with that though) falls on too many deaf ears.  I tend to think the entire shipyards property should become a permanent park.  Supporters of that: How strong an economic argument could we add to this?  My two cents: A.) There's too much supply of land downtown, including even on the river (and I'm talking way beyond short-term).  B.) Part of reinvigorating downtown may hinge on concentrating commercial development (think west of the jail on Bay Street). C.) We shouldn't have studies that point solely to one piece of property for the convention center (near the Hyatt) when land supply is abundant.  Drive the price of that land up a bit, make the Hyatt work to get an adjacent convention center.  D.) Yes, quality of life does matter and a river park adds to it.  E.) Near the chamber of commerce, in-between the stadium complex and downtown, that land needs to be fully developed and make an impression on the businessmen who come to Jacksonvile.  A beautiful park can trump even the appearance of a nice private development. F.) Past experience there is not good. G.) Green space, which could serve for ancillary convention center purposes as well as for stadium complex purposes is a terrific asset. You're killing two birds with one stone. H.) A lot of work has already been done and I think there is a realistic possibility to get matching funds to finish the thing (I believe - could be wrong - that Chattanooga won money in 2010 to extend towards, ironically, a stadium).   

I don't know all of the funding sources for different agencies, i.e., funding for the city versus JTA, but I still would like to see transportation get down Bay Street to the stadium complex (I still tend to like a Skyway extension over a new mode of transportation, though that might be unpopular).  To coordinate with transportation is a problem...perhaps there's a thought out there that a private partner might chip in or be keen on seeing improved public transit. Does that make it more feasible?  I need help on that one. 


         

[thelakelander]

I believe we need to dig back into the past and understand the dynamics of what built and fueled downtown to life before unilaterally coming to the conclusion that this (or any piece of property in the area) should be focused on a single, none integrated use.  With that said, I believe the entire property will be better off being mixed use (keep in mind, I'm not selecting a level of building density or park acreage) in a manner that allows it to become a long term organic economic stimulator that takes full advantage of its riverfront frontage.  Given the river access, those mix of uses should probably include a good amount of maritime related uses.  This mix could be a number of things (ex. public pier, marinas, floating ship museums, marine technology/research, boat repair/rental, etc., seafood market, restaurants, a playing field or two, a small level of shipping, etc.) and we should study the waterfronts of cities with similar histories and features (ex. San Francisco, Seattle, Norfolk, Baltimore, Savannah, Philadelphia, Boston, etc.) to see what works and doesn't.

So while, such a plan should definitely include a ton of public open space, considering the urban environment, we won't get full utilization and vibrancy out of the 44-acre site without some form of a mix of uses being integrated here.  

[Jdog]

Thanks for the reply.  Does getting private development down there make it more likely / easier to pursue integration into the transit system (whether a real trolley, Skyway, etc.)? 

[dougskiles]

Step #1 is for the City Council to commit to doing something about the Bay Street Pier Park.  Doesn't have to be the entire shipyards property, just the pier.

Jdog, you can help us by coming to the Waterways Commission meeting on April 13th at 9 am (City Hall).  Noone and I will be there.  Hopefully others will as well.

We have tried too many home run swings with these things in the past and need to put our energy in smaller pieces.

While I believe the skyway is the best way to connect San Marco/Southbank with downtown - and possibly on to Springfield/Shands, I would prefer a streetcar to the sports complex.  I just think having a streetcar run down the middle of Bay Street would be REALLY cool and would create a better pedestrian environment with lots of activity at street level.  The skyway isn't very good for creating street level activity.

[thelakelander]

I seriously doubt the city will do anything with that pier without some visual persuasion.  Conceptual plans, renderings and cost estimates need to be developed and presented of an idea of what that space can become.  That style of marketing will help build community support and open the minds of those in charge.

[Jdog]

The public pier idea is terrific and I'm totally for it.  Aside from a monetary argument, would there be any other reason (even if bogus) for other people to oppose it?  I haven't seen anything in the forum posts suggesting there could be other reasons presented that might need to be counter-argued in the future.   

[Coolyfett]

We need a good mayor and good city leaders,,until then expect the same yr after yr.

This.

[dougskiles]

I seriously doubt the city will do anything with that pier without some visual persuasion.  Conceptual plans, renderings and cost estimates need to be developed and presented of an idea of what that space can become.  That style of marketing will help build community support and open the minds of those in charge.

I completely agree.

I believe that fieldafm is working on some of these.  I haven't seen them yet, but am glad to help out if you need any cad or sketchup work done on them.

[Noone]

Step #1 is for the City Council to commit to doing something about the Bay Street Pier Park.  Doesn't have to be the entire shipyards property, just the pier.

Jdog, you can help us by coming to the Waterways Commission meeting on April 13Th at 9 am (City Hall).  Noone and I will be there.  Hopefully others will as well.

We have tried too many home run swings with these things in the past and need to put our energy in smaller pieces.

While I believe the skyway is the best way to connect San Marco/Southbank with downtown - and possibly on to Springfield/Shands, I would prefer a streetcar to the sports complex.  I just think having a streetcar run down the middle of Bay Street would be REALLY cool and would create a better pedestrian environment with lots of activity at street level.  The skyway isn't very good for creating street level activity.

Big plus ++++

jdog, stjr have you guys paddled Hogans Creek yet? If not then let Doug and I share it with you.
Anyone that can make this meeting try and be there. Suzanne Jenkins years ago told me that the real decisions are made at these meetings and not during the city council meetings. She was and is right. She helped a lot with her guidance and suggestions. The pier can happen now. You have to believe it.

In 10 days Waterway commission meeting and then the next day the Board meeting of the St. Johns River Alliance. This is HUGE.

My elected Jacksonville city council representative Don Redman Dist.4 has the legislative authority to introduce legislation that could immediately address the issue of the Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier.

I'll always remember former elected Jacksonville city council representative Suzanne Jenkins Dist.4 introducing legislation 2005-207 on the Old Fuller Warren Bridge and it wasn't even in her district.
That is leadership. It's still a local issue but will escalate to a statewide joke before the next city council and Mayor takes office.

Palms Fish Camp.
Shipyards III

Use the River Now.

 

[JeffreyS]

I will try to make it.