The Beginning of the End for Regency and Arlington.

[thelakelander]

I think Springfield's perserved architecture and historic landscape gave it an opportunity to reverse.  Unfortunately, most post 1950 suburbs won't have that to fall back on.  For Arlington, there needs to be some overall goal to highlight the things (central location, riverfront on three sides, home to a university, good highway connections, gridded streets, etc.) that make it stand out from typical suburban areas of the First Coast.

[Steve]

I think Springfield's perserved architecture and historic landscape gave it an opportunity to reverse.  Unfortunately, most post 1950 suburbs won't have that to fall back on.  For Arlington, there needs to be some overall goal to highlight the things (central location, riverfront on three sides, home to a university, good highway connections, gridded streets, etc.) that make it stand out from typical suburban areas of the First Coast.

I think that this could be two discussions - Old Arlington and Regency.

I agree - this is the begining of the end for the Regency Square Mall (funny, how it's expansion was basically one of the final nails in the coffin for Downtown retail).  Access is terrible with the road network around there - if anyone believe that non-grid streets are the way to go, go here and be proven wrong.

Old Arlington has an issue with their structures - they are not exactly popular, unlike Springfield.  I think the best thing that they can hope fir is more interaction with the universities, and possible when the market comes around, office construction on Arlington Expressway.  the nature of the road kills drive-by retail, but offices deal with a different dynamic, so could it be an office market at a lower price than Southpoint or Downtown? (especially with the Mathews bridge being as bad as it is).

[Steve]

Old Arlington has an issue with their structures - they are not exactly popular, unlike Springfield.  I think the best thing that they can hope fir is more interaction with the universities, and possible when the market comes around, office construction on Arlington Expressway.  the nature of the road kills drive-by retail, but offices deal with a different dynamic, so could it be an office market at a lower price than Southpoint or Downtown? (especially with the Mathews bridge being as bad as it is).

This was Godbold and Burn's strategy with the downtown Steve.

True, but their strategy neglected the pedestrian - not really an issue along Arlington Expressway.

[Steve]

I hate to disagree with you Steve, but both of them took great pains to please the pedestrian.  Godbold's regime saw the installation of plazas and outlying parking garages.

Exactly my point - while they thought they were improving the pedestrian experience, they actually were detracting from it.  All of the construction killed the downtown.  If their changes were done by keeping the end user in mind (instead of what they thought was good for the end user), things I believe would be different today.

The pedestrian is not really as large of an issue in arlington, because of it's suburban nature.  The building fabric is largely suburban.  The thing is that Arlington really doesn't have a walkable pedestrian commercial corridor (like main st in springfield, park in riverside, Edgewood in Murray Hill, or St johns in Avondale).  Arlington frankly might have more problems than downtown, and it's spreadout, auto-orinted nature contributes to this.

[Steve]

How would you address the pedestrian issue?

And why not support the good retail thats already there in the neighborhood and create a neighborhood initiative to help improve the marginal services, rather than driving out to the burbs and further nailing the lid onto the coffin?

That's a VERY large discussion - how do you make an existing, suburban, auto-oriented area into a pedestrian environment.  It's a true challenge.

[fsujax]

The Regency Mall has been in decline for years now and this transformation at Dillard's drives that point home. Look at what happend when Montgomery Wards closed, nothing of any significance ever reopened in that spot. I hardly ever frequent Regency Mall. I do however, shop at the Best Buy, Bed Bath Beyound, Lowes, Target and Home Depot in the vicinty of the mall. The entire isn't that bad, just the mall itself. There are many undesireable people that hang around that place. It reminds me of an old mall I used to work at in Atlanta, Gwinnett Place Mall, once it was the darling of Gwinnett County, now its the stepchild, left behind by the Mall of Georgia in Buford and Discover Mills Mall in Duluth. Regency has been out done by The Avenues and now the SJTC.

[stephenc]

I think the main problem is the "undesirable people". Now guys, don't bash me. But how do you fix that? Do you revitalize the area and bring in a more desirable population, which I believe, is what is happening in Springfield now.

[second_pancake]

Stephenc, that is one of the most discussed complaints about regency mall.

What would you propose to  help it?

SD, that is the question and one that can't be answered strictly as it pertains to specific area within our city.  This would have to be a city-wide initiative that begins in the sherrif's office and is completed with a signature from the Mayor's office:  More police presence and enforcement of laws.  Many of our city's problems would be solved if we could simply complete that one task.  Unfortunately, law enforcement is the first place our city government looks to when there are budget cuts (that and schools).  We shoot ourselves in the foot everytime we take an officer off the streets or turn a blind eye to a crime.

[heights unknown]

Wow; I don't live in Jax anymore and had no idea that the Arlington/Regency area had slipped this much.  I too hope that Regency doesn't end up like Normandy or Gateway.

Not only do the residents neeed to get involved to ensure that this area does not become like the old Springfield, but whoever the City Councilman is for that district needs to get off his or her a** and start firing themselves and the residents up regarding reclaiming this area for prosperity and success rather than letting it become run down.

I remember when this area of town was good and respectful for the most part, and Regency Mall was the heart and epicenter of the Arlington area; you had to stop at Regency Mall on the way to the beach, and people from Riverside, Northside, Normandy, and even close by Southside neighborhoods shopped at Regency Mall.

It's hard to believe that the decline of the Mall is a signal or death knell for the Arlington/Regency area.......I just don't believe this; I believe that the decline of Regency is primarily due to a poor economy, and the Ownership of the Mall not taking serious steps to counter each signal or sign of decline and deterioration within the Mall; add to this the decline of the area as a whole.......there are ways to keep your ship running even if it is in danger of sinking.  The area as a whole might decline, but I firmly believe that the Mall itself doesn't have to; I am sure there are other people in other areas that also shop at Regency Mall.

Heights Unknown

[stephenc]

I dont know any easy solution. I dont think an increased police force will really do it. Regency has a freaking police substation there and it is still a high crime area. I believe for the most part the "undesirable people are connected with a lower income level and when and area is revitalized and new things are built the cost of living in that area would in turn increase causing those undesirable people to leave and find another place. But then they would just become a problem for another area, and the good people in that same income level, would be forced out as well. I do think the stores and condos being built to the north of regency will help the area. Of course though, we as a city have a problem with just using an area of town then when it gets old, we move on to the next new area, rather than revitalizing the area.

[heights unknown]

I dont know any easy solution. I dont think an increased police force will really do it. Regency has a freaking police substation there and it is still a high crime area. I believe for the most part the "undesirable people are connected with a lower income level and when and area is revitalized and new things are built the cost of living in that area would in turn increase causing those undesirable people to leave and find another place. But then they would just become a problem for another area, and the good people in that same income level, would be forced out as well. I do think the stores and condos being built to the north of regency will help the area. Of course though, we as a city have a problem with just using an area of town then when it gets old, we move on to the next new area, rather than revitalizing the area.

Well said Stephen and I agreee; however, City and County leadership are responsible for monitoring these types of shortfalls and shortcomings within the City and County, fixing them, and ensuring that the image and livelihood of that area is kept at second to none levels for the citizens.  And we know what our current City leadership is renowned for.......for making the wrong decisions and not listening to the citizens.

Heights Unknown

[fightingosprey07]

Stephenc, that is one of the most discussed complaints about regency mall.

What would you propose to  help it?

Perhaps the best way to help Regency is for those of us who consider ourselves "desireable" to continue shopping there. If we all pass by Regency to go to SJTC, it will never stand a chance.

[stephenc]

Well I dont think there is one best way. But continueing to shop there is a good idea. But its is difficult. Why shop at Walmart when you have Target right down the road?

[sheclown]

[/quote]

Perhaps the best way to help Regency is for those of us who consider ourselves "desireable" to continue shopping there. If we all pass by Regency to go to SJTC, it will never stand a chance.
[/quote]

That is the solution to the city as a whole, don't you think? 

That and recognizing that criminal behavior occurs on all income levels.  It is just less sophisticated in poorer neighborhoods.  No law-abiding citizen wants crime around him, no matter how much money is in his pocket.  But it is hard to deal with crime in poorer neighborhoods because everyone wants to a.) either contain it there (if all the criminals are at Regency, then they will leave the other malls alone) and b.) the tendency to throw the baby out with the bathwater -- see Springfield for illustration, and the lack of faith resulting from that sort of discrimination.

I'm not a sociologist or a city planner.  Just some observations.

And yes, it really is a class war.

[gmpalmer]

I've got an idea:

Why don't we just bulldoze the damn thing and plant trees there?

There is much more than enough housing and area in Jacksonville for all the residents we have.  Heck, we could probably take every vagrant in the city and give them their own house!  (we certainly could give them an unfurnished condo by the river. . . guess that was a bad investment, huh?)

The only way to fix the Jacksonville disease of using up neighborhoods like WalMarts and moving on is to raze the neighborhood to the dirt and plant over it.  Brentwood, Arlington and most of Oceanway and Mandarin seem like good starting points.

Waiting for the flames,
Michael

And by "thing" I mean approximately all of Arlington east of Jacksonville University.