Solving JTA's BRT North Corridor Funding Dilemma

[Metro Jacksonville]

Solving JTA's BRT North Corridor Funding Dilemma



Metro Jacksonville takes a closer look at JTA's $21.3 million plan for BRT along Lem Turner Road and presents an affordable alternative to get the ball rolling.


Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-mar-solving-jtas-brt-north-corridor-funding-dilemma

[peestandingup]

There is SO much the current bus system needs. I don't have to go down the list, but anyone who's used it knows what they are. So I'm not sure I understand the need for using limited funds on a BRT to the north right now when we have so much that needs fixed.

I mean, most of the current stops don't even have shelters for Christ sake. Here's my stop:


It's right next to the highway with cars whizzing by just a few feet away. Nothing to tell me where the next bus is & no shelter if it comes a downpour. Oh, and there's fire ants all around it, so I have to sit on top of the backrest so my feet don't get eaten alive. Pretty pathetic.

[dougskiles]

Nice bike.

[dougskiles]

Now that I have read the article, I have a little more to comment on.

My strong distaste for BRT is beginning to subside.  In areas where we aren't duplicating an existing system (like the Skyway) or existing infrastructure (rail lines that could be commuter), it seems like the best first step is BRT.  A newer, more reliable and informative system will appeal to a larger group of people.  I haven't been terribly upset about the loss of HSR because I believe that we should be starting small.  Same can be said for the local system and the BRT seems to be the next step - in certain areas.  I still much prefer a Skyway extension to San Marco and the streetcar from Riverside to Downtown.

In addition, the City of Jacksonville's draft of the 2030 Mobility Plan includes road infrastructure projects intended to relieve the isolated congestion points along the corridor.

I am surprised that Metro Jacksonville would be rallying behind this.  Providing BRT signal priority could eliminate the need for the road infrastructure projects, could it not?  Which would cost less?  This argument seems to be made frequently in reverse on this forum.

According to JTA's plans, buses along the North Corridor will arrive at stops every 10-15 minutes.  At that rate, the frequency of service is strong enough for riders to know that the next bus will be arriving very soon.  This makes the immediate need for real-time passenger information a desire rather than necessity.

I disagree.  Having real-time information adds significantly to the ridership experience.  People who don’t have a choice but to ride the bus currently will live with it the way it is.  But if JTA is trying to attract a new group of riders, then it is exactly this kind of thing that will make them more comfortable with the system.  Knowing that the bus is 15 minutes away tells me that I may have time to do some work while I’m waiting.  If it is only 5 minutes away, then perhaps I catch up on emails.  People want to take the guesswork out.  In addition, it would allow JTA a way to tell people that perhaps the system is out of service and is more like 60 minutes delayed.  Well, I would rather know that immediately as opposed to waiting and waiting and waiting.

Perhaps JTA should reconsider their plans to use eight new hybrid buses in the regular rotation instead of a specific route.  With a desire to "brand" or set apart BRT from the rest of JTA's fleet, it would seem using these new hybrid buses for BRT only would help achieve that goal.

I agree.

Queue jumps would be ideal for a congested roadway such as Blanding Blvd. in Orange Park.

I agree.  We can spend the money on the queue jumps when the area gets congested enough that the expense can be justified.

The BRT Southeast Corridor meeting is March 10th from 4:30 pm to 7:00 pm at FSCJ Deerwood Center.  As I stated in the beginning, I am not opposed to BRT in general, but along the southeast corridor, we have the potential for commuter rail â€" which would be a much better long term investment.  Although, I suppose it will take much longer to implement.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

A few things that I noticed in the article that I'd like to point out:

1.)  from Soutel to Gateway Station, there are already 15 minute headways with a staggering of the L7 & L8.  I was at the meeting at gateway, and the promise that they're trying to deliver with BRT is 10mins and under.  My only concern with this is BRT branded busses will only stop at designated areas, so if you're heading to or leaving from a regular stop - you're still stuck with 15 min. waits while the BRT passes you by.

2.)  the L8 is a Walmart to Walmart bus (Lem Turner to Normandy), the L7 is from Winn-Dixie on Soutel/Moncrief to the Avenues mall - both busses travel down the core of the northside, through the gateway shopping center, L8 goes through Brentwood, L7 cuts in front of Shands, and then they duplicate from Shands to Rosa Park.  With such long routes, these busses individually have 30 min. headtimes.  Add (1) additional bus to each route and you will cut those times down to 18-20 minutes for the entire route - that will also provide 7-10 minute waits through the core areas without any additional expenditure except for (2) busses & O&M.


I asked these questions at the meeting.  I put these questions down on paper.  I haven't received any response.  IMO, they can accomplish their goal for about 2M.  That would include the costs of the busses and operation for a year or two.  The only area that needs some work is Norwood, just east of 95.  The road is extremely narrow and the tracks cross right before you get to Gateway heading east.  I don't have a solution for that part. - but unless the BRT busses can jump over a train, then neither does JTA.

[Lunican]

Chicago Transit Authority has come up with a cheap way to implement bus arrival information at all their stops via text message.



http://www.transitchicago.com/riding_cta/how_to_guides/bustrackertext.aspx

They also have a version for smart phones: http://www.transitchicago.com/mobile/traintrackerarrivals.aspx?sid=41660

[tufsu1]

In order for the route to qualify for Federal New Starts funding, it has to be categorized as BRT...which means features like signal priority and real time info. are a must....without them, JTA can't access that pot of money.

btw....I assume the $6.4 million is just the first round...the project would likely get another $6 million the next year, thereby recahing the Federal 50% match....the issue is whether JTA and FDOT have the other 50%

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

In order for the route to qualify for Federal New Starts funding, it has to be categorized as BRT...which means features like signal priority and real time info. are a must....without them, JTA can't access that pot of money.

Yes, this was also expressed at the meeting.   But.  The overall impression that I got was that they were starting this on the N. corridor because the ridership is already in place, the actual 'required' upgrades were few and the system would perform better overall.  I don't see it.  They didn't convince me - someone who does ride this corridor all the time.  If it's just a grab for cash for future projects, then so be it - but I see it as a waste of money instead as a necessary expense to get more. - if it's not broken then don't fix it. 

[yapp1850]

is the bus service in jacksonville that bad, in tampa hart is adding bus shelters every year and hart started last year text message or smart phone app.  so you know when the next bus is.

[wsansewjs]

I disagree.  Having real-time information adds significantly to the ridership experience.  People who don’t have a choice but to ride the bus currently will live with it the way it is.  But if JTA is trying to attract a new group of riders, then it is exactly this kind of thing that will make them more comfortable with the system.  Knowing that the bus is 15 minutes away tells me that I may have time to do some work while I’m waiting.  If it is only 5 minutes away, then perhaps I catch up on emails.  People want to take the guesswork out.  In addition, it would allow JTA a way to tell people that perhaps the system is out of service and is more like 60 minutes delayed.  Well, I would rather know that immediately as opposed to waiting and waiting and waiting.

I totally AGREE with you on that. You guys have NO FUCKING IDEA how stressful to know and not about when the bus will be coming and trying to figure it out if going to work ON TIME is feasible. IMAGINE living through that stress EVERYDAY, worrying about the bus not showing up or being late. SO MUCH for being stress over some stupid ****ing bus.

Having a real time information system that the dedicated riders can sign up with JTA to give them a direct access (to resolve any Homeland Security bullshit). It is like the sensation when you piss in the toilet after holding it in for a long time.

I apologize for the number of cuss words I injected into the post. The number of the cuss words is a true reflection of my anger at JTA.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

So I guess checking the schedules that are printed on leaflets and posted on-line is just too much hassle?  Little hint:  get off of facebook, go to JTAFLA.com, check the schedule, get to the stop about 5-7 minutes before it's scheduled and wait.  If it gets to be more than 5 minutes after the scheduled time, then call 630.3100 and they'll give you all the real-time info you need.

I apologize for the snarkiness, but it's a reflection of everyone's reliance on 'real-time' this and I gotta have it NOW that. 

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Sorry Josh - I lost it for a second.  

Not about busses, but relevant to my rant.  BITD, we were given a set of blueprints, materials and 3-4 weeks to frame a home.  Life was good.  Product was excellent.  Next we were given pagers and a roll of quarters, blueprints to 2 homes and still 3-4 weeks.  Then we had Nextels, 4 sets of incomplete prints, 3/4 of the required material and 2-3 weeks of building time.  Then came the blackberry with e-mail in the field.  The prints were posted on-line for us to get printed, sometimes the materials were ordered, sometimes they weren't, we now have 1 week, 8 houses and 4 crews of non-english speaking people to get the job done.  Life Sucks, Product is Shit.  I don't do residential construction anymore, but the process hasn't changed.  

This advent of 'technology' and 'real-time' info has completely ruined the ability for most people to communicate all of their thoughts into one meeting.  We are so ADHD as a society, that we get less done, with more errors, with more wasted steps than ever - give a guy the info he needs - ONCE, the time he actually needs to complete the task - ONCE and leave him the fuck alone and let him work.  ONCE.  You wouldn't have the issues that we have now.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

No thanks.   We're trying to stick to facts on this topic. 

[thelakelander]

I actually agree with Non-RedNeck Westsider on this.  From what I've seen so far, I question it being necessary to spend $20-$25 million on each BRT corridor for improvements that could be made through simple operational modifications, the use of private sector shelters and better stop info (as shown in Lunican's photo).  So I guess I'm not too keen on the idea of holding reliable service hostage to coming up with $125 million in funds that when implemented, won't really provide you with anything more than you could have gotten by providing the no-frills components that makes mass transit reliable and efficient.

[dougskiles]

It takes a week to get the buses on googletransit, so that they can be checked in real time from a cellphone, JEA has known about this for at least two years.

And how much would it cost to have an information screen at each major bus stop that was receiving this information to display?  A small solar panel could be put on top of the shelter to keep the batteries charged for the display unit (and for the security camera that would be needed to keep people from stealing the solar panel and display unit).

I don't see that costing $20 million.