Some church requests for tithes.

[Expree]

I am always amazed and amused at how creative some pastors can be as they attempt to obtain more money from their sheep.  Here are some copy/paste items from the wonderful FBC Jax Watchdog website by the tireless former FBC member who has the courage to confront various types of abuses from the powers at be.  I thought some of the MJ people might enjoy these.

The following is from a sermon by Robert Jeffress of First Baptist Church Dallas on April, 11, 2010, as he seeks funds, not for the needy and the poor, but for his $130,000,000 building project:

"There are probably some of you this morning who would, if you were honest, would say 'Pastor, I wish I were more interested in spiritual things than I am...Pastor, I wished I loved God more than I do. Frankly I don't love Him, I don't think about Him very often.' If that's true for you this morning, may I suggest to you: the greatest thing you can do for your spiritual health, would be to take a large chunk of your assets, and give them to this campaign. Just slice off a big hunk of 'em and give them to this campaign."

Here is another, from Steve Gaines, Pastor of Bellevue Baptist Church near Memphis, as he preached on January 31, 2010:

"The reason some of you can't worship God is you're stealing from Him. You cannot be intimate with someone you're stealing from....Some of you have stolen from God and paid for other things, and that means you're living in a stolen house, you're driving a stolen car, you're wearing stolen clothes, you have stolen jewelry, you're sending your kids to school with stolen money."

And another, a warning about "God's" judgement if too little is tithed, from Mac Brunson of Jacksonville's First Baptist Church, as he preached on October 10, 2010:

"I want to tell you something. You cannot convince me, that a big portion of the economic downturn in this country doesn't rest squarely on the shoulders of Christians who will not honor God with the tithe. When you come to the place in this country where only 2 to 3 percent of the people tithe that call themselves Christian, we should expect the judgment of God."

[Timkin]

Going to Church does not make one a Christian anymore than standing in a Garage makes one an Automobile.  and Tithing as some of these Pastors suggest is nothing short of theft and imposing guilt to folks, in the name of God.

Sorry...just calling a spade a shovel     $130,000,000 does not make the Pastor a Christian either.

It is interesting and very sad, the kind of tactics and lengths , some of these people who deem themselves Christian will go to , to get that tithe.  I never bought into that guilt. 

[Garden guy]

Going to Church does not make one a Christian anymore than standing in a Garage makes one an Automobile.  and Tithing as some of these Pastors suggest is nothing short of theft and imposing guilt to folks, in the name of God.

Sorry...just calling a spade a shovel     $130,000,000 does not make the Pastor a Christian either.

It is interesting and very sad, the kind of tactics and lengths , some of these people who deem themselves Christian will go to , to get that tithe.  I never bought into that guilt. 

Nailed it again Tim...thanks..

[Doctor_K]

Going to Church does not make one a Christian anymore than standing in a Garage makes one an Automobile.  and Tithing as some of these Pastors suggest is nothing short of theft and imposing guilt to folks, in the name of God.

Sorry...just calling a spade a shovel     $130,000,000 does not make the Pastor a Christian either.

It is interesting and very sad, the kind of tactics and lengths , some of these people who deem themselves Christian will go to , to get that tithe.  I never bought into that guilt. 

+5

[wsansewjs]

-facepalm- No wonder why I don't go to any churches.

I could sworn that the way I read this topic's title was "Some church requests for titties."

-Josh

[ben says]

Tithes are dumb.

Oh yeah, so are churches...

[Debbie Thompson]

Since this is an opinion thread, here's my opinion.  I believe Pastor Gaines is right, and I have to admit I have not been faithful in tithing.  The tithe, our first fruit, belongs to God. If we don't gladly give it, we are robbing God.  I think churches shouldn't even have to ask for our tithes, because we should give without being asked.  I think churches should take good care of our tithes and offerings, and I believe God will hold them accountable if they don't.  I think you should find a good church which you trust to do right with it when you entrust them with God's portion of your income, and then gladly give it.

[ben says]

The idea that god would want people to send a percentage of their income to a church is beyond inane.

[ben says]

McDonalds...
Tea Party...
Santa...

Those are the wit and soul of our human culture?!

Gee...count me out!

I'd prefer to think our human cultural experience was doused in authors, artists, and great thinkers....wait a second, then I wouldn't be describing America....

[simms3]

Well I trust my money with the Episcopalian church, specifically the one I attend, because I know exactly where it goes and I support that, and the church doesn't ever really ask for the money except subtly, sometimes.  Most parishioners automatically tithe at least 10% via discreet check with no questions asked or hesitations.  Of course, I'm one of the paper bill people because I'm still poor and 10% from me is not even a charitable tax exemption

The way the Baptist churches do it reminds me sort of how televangelists do it, but I'm sure most churches send that money on to great causes and don't pay their priests hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.  (I actually don't know if I'm being sarcastic or being serious, but hopefully the latter).

My priests are pretty poor and choose to remain so.  They devote their lives to the Church, though everyone invites them to dinner or to parties, some of them elaborate, so the priests do have fun and get to know the parishioners outside of Sunday services and weekday church related activities.  Of course, in the Episcopalian Church we also take Jesus's devotion to wine quite seriously

And this actually isn't meant to be a political statement, but America is the most charitable nation BY FAR and that is largely due to the fact that in this country most people still do go to church and tithe.  Churches do wonders for the world.  Faith based organizations are the same (and often funded by churches).  In Europe nobody goes to church or believes in any god anymore (except for in Alah ironically), and Europe as a whole is not nearly as giving as America (even with their liberal, humanistic tendencies).

When Katrina hit, I think it was something like 70-90% of relief volunteers came with their churches.  It may have been even higher.  Same thing with the Christmas tsunami of 2004.  Without American congregations, the world would be a much worse place!

[simms3]

Ok, so now we are 5th most charitable country as opposed to 1st, and only by a small margin.  Still, of the top 21 most charitable countries on Earth, only a few are in Europe.  Australia and NZ are 1st and 2nd, and Canada is right above us.  I'll concede that I guess as a percentage of our wealth we are no longer the most giving, but we are still welllll ahead of all of developed Europe except for little Ireland and a hair behind the leaders.

I still say that despite the Pope and the Archbishop of Canterbury being in Europe, they are not a religious people.  That's pretty much common fact.  Half my family comes from/lives in Sweden and none of them are religious except for my mother and my uncle, both of whom married Catholics (and ftr my parents are not Catholic...they are Episcopalian because my mother did not want to be Catholic).

The only religious people in Europe nowadays are in some scattered small towns, and mostly people older than 60 years old (except I can tell you my Swedish family above 60 is not religious).  For instance, my Aunt Gunilla (who is my grandmother's youngest sibling and is 70-something) honestly thought that Jesus had a baby and travelled to India.  She probably still thinks that.  That was her summary of the Bible once.  I'm telling you, people in Europe are not religious and almost nobody under the age of 40 there with the exception of all of the Muslim immigrants is religious in the least bit.

I went to Spain for a summer once and lived with a family (went with some friends who lived with other families).  Only one family went to church routinely and none of the other families were religious at all (and this is in "heavily Catholic" Spain).

[Timkin]

just in case some took my initial post as though I would not tithe when I attended church, of course I would.  I would not , however , buy into a "salvation by intimidation" guilt trip as one of these three examples clearly portray.

Of course a church has operating expenses.  I get that.  but I do not support the notion that a leader of a congregation is allowed to state such absurd statements, and the congregation should be submissive and empty their wallets.

If a man goes out and earns his living , he has done just that.

I have no desire whatsoever to offend anyone on this site or their religious convictions.

[Cricket]

To say that Europe is less religious than the US or vice versa is one of those spurious arguments for which you can have no proof regardless of who in your European family goes to church or not. Religious people are religious because they have certain spiritual convictions not because they belong to one denomination or another. Among their convictions may or may not be giving 10% of their wages to charity.

BTW I would guess that if a Martian landed in America today on any Sunday morning he would think our church is really the shopping mall. We in America worship the dollar more than we worship any higher Being.  That is not to say that we are less than generous in giving to those in need, in fact it might explain why we are. 

Don't confuse religious with charitable.

[danno]

I dont know how to embed, so here is a link.  If someone would pm me with how to I will update it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-VOCd7bcu0

This is how my former church was spending my tithe, on nonsense such as this.

I fled from there for many reasons and now I attend a church that gives away to other charities and organizations half of what it takes in.  All of its financial statements are posted online and I know what my paastor brings home.

There are some abuses out there, lots of them, but please don't tar an entire faith with the same brush.  There are a lot of bad things to be undone.

[Expree]

    Timkin, you seem to be a Christian, and the way you use the word “god” indicates that you believe that there is a god out there somewhere. And I totally agree with you about the abusive attempts of these fellows at using guilt regarding the tithe.  Some of these pastors gain confidence, realizing that those members who remain in their congregations have done so perhaps because they are somewhat tamed, and are of such a mind that they will be inclined to tolerate and submit to the occasional excessive tithing demands and the occasional pressure of guilt during the process of requesting increased tithing.  The congregation’s habit of listening in silence, of respecting the pastor’s position of being the teacher so to speak, is conveyed to the pastor, giving him the confidence, and sometimes the arrogance, to allow for the occasional abuse in tithing demands.  But of course, this is not to say, that in many cases, the funds given are not used in very charitable ways, for the benefit of many who need help.  Unfortunately, in any scenario involving money, there is opportunity for abuse.