Is Springfield a viable retail market?

[thelakelander]

LOL, that's at least the second or third time, that particular post has been quoted by Stephen.

[jason_contentdg]

pins and needles...

[Springfield Girl]

Stephen, your earlier post reflects the reality I see in Springfield. Like I've said before we are a diverse group and there is much more positive than negative. We have made a change in the residential area because we can, it is much easier and affordable. The problem on Main St. is not due to the residents but rather the property owners. Most of the properties are unavailable for purchase or rent and when they are they are often outrageously priced or uninhabitable. We do what we can but most of us have learned to focus on issues where we can actually effect change and not spin our wheels on things that are out of our control. I support the local businesses that have goods and services that I need or desire and so do my many friends and neighbors. That being said you cannot expect people to support something they do not need or want. I am friends with the local drycleaner but I do not buy clothes that need to be drycleaned so I do not need his services. Of the 10 businesses you cited earlier I support 6 on a regular basis even though some might consider me one of those bad "SPAR types". I do not in any way or form resemble a LOLA (little old lady of Springfield) though. SPAR is growing and changing with the neighborhood and if you came to a meeting or two you just might be surprised. Only 4 of the 14 board members are female and 9 of the 14 are in their 30's and 40's, hardly old by todays standard.

[RiversideGator]

River, I would be very interested in those properties if they were available and reasonable.   Main will have a commercial handicap due to the road construction for the next nine months.

8th and Walnut is available and can be had for a song.

[zoo]

"Interestingly, it is this attempt to pull in the 'indie kids' Community of Interest that verifies my original point about the positive steps that Springfield can take.

I was one of the entrepruerial elements that helped that Community of Interest turn into a Community of Place in Five Points in the early 90s.  That community is the very one that followed our little flock of businesses into Springfield in the first place and it was established in the Five Points district using the exact same methods as described above.

Five Points, using the locals as a base, and drawing an outside crowd from the alternative Community of Interest (mostly the suburbs and Orange Park) established itself quite rapidly.

Only we did it with less people, not as well heeled, or even legitimately employed for that matter, in far less time.

The idea that Springfield is less able to do the same thing is kind of funny.

I think that the product Springfield has to offer that is available nowhere else in the city is the inclusionary programming that made the original businesses work in the first place."

Stephen, after reading this entire thread, and the post I've copied above in particular, it doesn't sound like you're supportive of "inclusionary" at all. Rather, it sounds like you support exclusionary, just in some direction other than what you perceive exists. Imho, a community of interest isn't comprised of just "indie kids", "SPAR types", "yuppies", "LOLAs", blacks, whites, yellows or any other label. Springfield is a community of interest to me because it has ALL of these and much more.

[RiversideGator]

River, if you are interested in pursuing this, I would love to see the properties and sit down with a couple of other interested parties so that we can do it all at one time and thereby increase our chances.

I do like the building but actually I have my eye on another building.  I just have to finish a project I am working on and then get my financing straight.  I do think that building (8th and Walnut) has great potential though.

[zoo]

Stephen, you are correct in that what is occurring in Springfield right now, desirable or undesirable, has been the direct result of social issues that reach far beyond the neighborhood's borders geographically, and far beyond the recent transitional period timewise.

The bottom lines are:

Few want Springfield to remain the way it was -- just about all want it to continue to change

The change that is occurring is not the result of some universally socially acceptable, or engineered, reversal of the social damage that has been wrought on the area (and several other Northside neighborhoods) over the past several decades

Few in the area are exclusionary in the way that you and she_clown have indicated in this thread, though many, including you and she_clown are exclusionary in other ways (this is where the labeling comes in -- too many "SPAR-types", continue to grow the "indie" element, "yuppies" at 3 Layers, etc.). I've already admitted that I'm exclusionary when it comes to values I don't want my kids to think are ok.

We're all on the same team. I may not agree with another Springfielder's approach, but I'm happy that another gives a hoot enough to keep making it better than it was (even if it's not my first choice re: HOW to make it better).

I think Springfield, with UF&Shands, FCCJ, Downtown and other surrounding assets so close is a very viable retail market. The real question is not "Is it viable?", but "Who in this 'burg is bright enough to see it?"

[thelakelander]

I believe the market for retail/dining/service businesses on Main Street is viable.  However, there are some things that need to be addressed that stunt Main's ultimate growth and limit the potential for complementing businesses to locate next to each other to create synergy.  A year or two ago, the major problem was building leasing rates and bloated land values.  However, the market is taking care of that problem.  Other issues that still need to be addressed still include, visual blight, existing building conditions, building landlord idealogy, marketing and promotion, etc.  With the road currently under construction, now is the time to tackle these issues, imo.

[sheclown]

There's no _ in sheclown. 

It's just that sometimes the rhetoric around here sounds like a bunch of missionaries imposing their cultural norms on an area without respect to what was existing already. 

Okay, blast me.  Tell me how terrible it was.  I know.  I was around ten years ago.  I sort of liked the parade of characters that are missing today.  I was never robbed, beaten, mistaken for a prostitute.  I was treated with kind respect from despicable characters.  I was entertained by long-winded sermons from drunken street preachers.  Hey, it was a funky place and that's why I moved in.  And, the house which I shared with the pigeons while I was restoring it?  no place like it.

So, the neighborhood has changed.  Values increased.  Saved?  I really don't know. 

[thelakelander]

Downtown wishes it had the residential base of springfield.

No doubt.  Springfield has three times as many residents as downtown does right now.  If the JEDC were smart, they would focus a little more attention of State & Union Streets.  A little work/marketing in that area would be a huge boost for both Downtown and Springfield, plus help finally tie them in back together.

[jrtmom]

SPR is still a funky place, if you ask me. 

No, not in the way it was 10+ years ago.  Not even in the way it was three years ago when we first found it! 

But we still have our share of characters, as many as or more than any other neighborhood, and you still have to "get it" to live here and become a part of the community.  Not everyone who lives in SPR really wants to be part of the community, but I think the majority do.

I got more stuff stolen from my N Central Phx house that was on a busy street next to a bus stop...but there I had a lot of walkable choices for groceries, dining, banks, etc.  And 2 blocks from the canal system, great for biking, running and dog walking. 

Jacksonville will get there eventually but it takes effort by more than just a few, as you all have said. 

[zoo]

Instead of using people (resident count) that are already there, JEDC would rather throw a massive of amount of city money at a brand new development project they hope will bring new office/retail and new residential base in Brooklyn. Re-creating the wheel closer to a "nicer" neighborhood...

[thelakelander]

What's going on with that Brooklyn development?  It was supposed to break ground a year ago.

[thelakelander]

Arlington and Springfield's retail situations are different in terms of history, physical environment and building density, especially the area around Regency Mall, which has seen more recent new commercial construction than most areas of Jacksonville. 

Regency is a "regional" mall that's set up to pull from multiple areas of the First Coast.  Its being out done by Jacksonville's three other regional centers Avenues Mall, St. Johns Town Center and even Orange Park Mall.  All have spent millions in the last two years either remodeling or on new construction.  Regency has stood pat and continues to lose the battle to attract regional customers.  The center is at a crossroad like many older malls eventually come to.  Its time to either go through a makeover to incorporate today's retailing trends or refuse and eventually go down the path of Gateway, Philips and Normandy Malls.

[jrtmom]

I think Arlington should pursue more business of the type that is already going to the area....the shopping just north of the mall generally has good activity, and it's easier to get to now that the flyover is done.

See this example from Chris-town Mall in central Phoenix....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christown_Spectrum_Mall

This one had a horrible Dillards outlet which I think was a big part of the decline.  That is gone now, and a few years back a Costco was brought in as one of the anchors....so now the big box stores are there which attracts a lot of people.  This mall isn't far from Camelback Rd which is car dealer heaven like Atlantic.  There is a good amount of perimeter shopping which continued throughout the decline and resurgence of the mall.  And it's in the midst of neighborhoods, mostly middle class.  It's also close by Baptist Hospital which kept some of the restaurants alive through the decline in the shopping space.

If Arlington can keep the perimeter population thriving while it quickly redevelops a strategy for the main mall, it has a better opportunity of survival and re-growth.