Outer Beltway Plan Up In Smoke!

[spuwho]

While I agree this road as a private venture is not viable, access to Cecil and Blanding should proceed unfettered.

Continue to acquire ROW incrementally, but a focus on urban infill should really be the priority during this time.

Commuter Rail is an option, but it is not a panacea to an outer beltway.

Ultimately, better connectivity in Clay & St John's counties will be needed, but it should happen organically through ROW acquisition and post demand buildouts.

[thelakelander]

^True.  The best solution will be a multimodal approach that places a higher priority on mixed-use infill.

[tufsu1]

Middleman. you can take STJR's word for it.  I also agree with STJR on this issue.  We should be thanking the good lord that this project is dead in its tracks.

yeah but it's not!

[tufsu1]

I assume, they don't include the 3-mile, $230 million stretch of SR 60 that connects the Veteran's Expressway with I-275 & the CCC?

correct...because the part that is SR 60 is free...and its also free from  SR 60 to Independence...the other mile north to Hillsborough is part of the toll road

[thelakelander]

Yet without it, the tollroad's revenue would plummet.

[jcjohnpaint]

Personally I still don't see how this beltway will help alleviate traffic on Blanding.  It seems to far to the West. 

[thelakelander]

It won't. However, it would spur sprawl, which was the original intention behind the project.

[dlupercio]

stjr, I, like most everybody here, am a huge proponent of commuter rail solutions. I would hate to be labeled "pro-roads", because that's not really the case. I just want to see transportation problems handled in a pragmatic manner. If commuter rail came to Clay county, it would absolutely put a dent in the Branding Blvd problem. But the reality is, even with rail as part of the solution, traffic bottlenecks like Blanding are not going to just go away. It is a road problem, and part of the solution has to be road solutions.

Oh, and thanks for sharing your conspiracy theories about the evil special interests. I had no idea.

This project would have been poison for jacksonville's progress and development! Forget about urban sprawl! there is so much property within Jacksonville city limits that have nothing going on! closer commutes would strengthen jacksonville's economy and identity with the rest of the US. Thank God or whoever you pray to that this project bit the dust! btw i live in Oakleaf (not for long thankfully) and have to deal with all that traffic nonsense to get to Mandarin. Still glad this project tanked!!! Me, as well as many neighbors/folks i talk to about the issue agree and feel the best thing to do is move closer within the core! the reasons are obvious and maybe more research  would lead you to understand that.

[middleman]

Its not that the beltway is too far west, the problem is, the beltway intersects Blanding too far south, because of its proposed alignment with Branan Field road. To say that in the proposed alignment, it won't help alleviate SOME traffic on Blanding is not a fair statement. It will help keep much of the Middleburg, Asbury Lake, and surrounding development's commuter traffic off of Blanding. But a relocated highway that intersects Blanding a few miles farther north would take way more traffic off of Blanding because that alignment would be a far more efficient pressure valve, serving the Lakeside, Doctor's Inlet, and Ridgewood communities as well as those farther south. This project could conceivably be redesigned so it could be much more efficient than the current design.

With regard to urban sprawl, explain to me how long distance commuter rail, like say commuter rail into Clay or St.Johns county, doesn't contribute to urban sprawl just like a new highway will? It seems like anywhere you make travel more convenient or efficient, development will follow.

[dlupercio]

Its not that the beltway is too far west, the problem is, the beltway intersects Blanding too far south, because of its proposed alignment with Branan Field road. To say that in the proposed alignment, it won't help alleviate SOME traffic on Blanding is not a fair statement. It will help keep much of the Middleburg, Asbury Lake, and surrounding development's commuter traffic off of Blanding. But a relocated highway that intersects Blanding a few miles farther north would take way more traffic off of Blanding because that alignment would be a far more efficient pressure valve, serving the Lakeside, Doctor's Inlet, and Ridgewood communities as well as those farther south. This project could conceivably be redesigned so it could be much more efficient than the current design.

With regard to urban sprawl, explain to me how long distance commuter rail, like say commuter rail into Clay or St.Johns county, doesn't contribute to urban sprawl just like a new highway will? It seems like anywhere you make travel more convenient or efficient, development will follow.

I don't think you understand....first of all, i am all for sprawl if a city has a well defined core. Jacksonville. DOESNT. 9A is a defined enough "beltway" for the city, and relatively new. Jacksonville isn't ready for a second beltway, are you kidding me??? BIG waste of money. Jacksonville's, as well as Florida's priority for Jacksonville, needs to be focused on defining the city more to the standards that people expect. And to keeping the city more centralized. Contributing billions on concrete is not necessary! That money can be put to better use within the city. Be it rail or shit i'm even down for adding more lanes to 9A (which is only 2 lanes for most of it and already talking about another beltway, WAKE UP PEOPLE!) We can't spend all focus on the westside, because the westside is not what defines Jacksonville. (thankfully)
Now yes, blanding is a nightmare but that's what we get when most focus is put on to adding another neighborhood in BFE. followed by another. followed by another.

[dlupercio]

p.s. the problems are the the beltway are BOTH too west and too south.

[thelakelander]

With regard to urban sprawl, explain to me how long distance commuter rail, like say commuter rail into Clay or St.Johns county, doesn't contribute to urban sprawl just like a new highway will? It seems like anywhere you make travel more convenient or efficient, development will follow.

Not all development is the same.  You can have either sustainable or unsustainable development. Every transit trip begins and ends with walking.  Commuter rail promotes infill walkable development along an established transportation corridor (typically within a 1/2 mile radius of rail stations) while a new 46 mile expressway stimulates autocentric development in formerly virgin land.  Automobiles cover much larger distances than our feet do, which contributes to the sprawled out nature of automobile friendly development.

[tufsu1]

But a relocated highway that intersects Blanding a few miles farther north would take way more traffic off of Blanding because that alignment would be a far more efficient pressure valve, serving the Lakeside, Doctor's Inlet, and Ridgewood communities as well as those farther south.

which is why folks in Clay County also want to extend College Drive north and west to meet up with the new expressway

[Ocklawaha]

This is just one of many examples that Lake or myself could post for you. This is Plano Texas, to the right is a large apartment-condo complex, to the left is the light rail station, and in the middle a beautiful pedestrian plaza...Nary a car in sight. The whole thing takes up maybe 3 city blocks, DOWNTOWN, and includes the Light Rail Station, a Bus Station, and for those who still want to live in suburbia, a landscaped, forested, park and ride lot is located next to the DART station (yes, real enclosed stations WITH services) which would be about a half block and all along the left side of these same tracks. Put this same amount of families in a traditional suburban development and it would cover a space like Bellair-Meadowbrook in Orange Park. Do the math, calculate how many miles of pipe, lighting, city services, streets, sidewalks, parks, etc. it takes for the taxpayer to maintain the Bellair-Meadowbrook lifestyle, and how many less dollars Plano has spent on something arguably nicer.

OCKLAWAHA

[middleman]

I don't think you understand....first of all, i am all for sprawl if a city has a well defined core. Jacksonville. DOESNT. 9A is a defined enough "beltway" for the city, and relatively new. Jacksonville isn't ready for a second beltway, are you kidding me??? BIG waste of money. Jacksonville's, as well as Florida's priority for Jacksonville, needs to be focused on defining the city more to the standards that people expect. And to keeping the city more centralized. Contributing billions on concrete is not necessary! That money can be put to better use within the city. Be it rail or shit i'm even down for adding more lanes to 9A (which is only 2 lanes for most of it and already talking about another beltway, WAKE UP PEOPLE!) We can't spend all focus on the westside, because the westside is not what defines Jacksonville. (thankfully)
Now yes, blanding is a nightmare but that's what we get when most focus is put on to adding another neighborhood in BFE. followed by another. followed by another.

I'm sorry Dlupercio, I wasn't responding directly to your post. It was posted in response to previous posts. But, just to clarify... I'm not in favor of the beltway, at least not as its currently proposed. What I've been talking about in my recent posts is a highway that provides an alternate route for commuters north into Jax from Clay county. The proposed beltway is not needed yet and the selected route is stupid. I agree with you that the entire beltway is a big waste of money at this time.