JEA Bill

[jaxpaxpastor]

Non-Redneck: Nobody is "robbing" us--we know and trust our neighbors.  As for Christmas lights, we had nothing electrical plugged in or illuminating the outside, although we did have an artificial Christmas tree whose lights were on for no more than two hours/day in December.  All in all, after every upgrade we made to energy-efficient appliances and a top-of-the-line HVAC system, I just can't understand why -- during a cold snap of maybe three weeks -- our utility bill should spike $300 ... a 150% (2.5 times) increase over our previous bills.

Debbie: Thanks for the sincere and practical reply.

Uptown Girl: I suspect you are right.  While it used to be that you "can't fight City Hall" -- or the utility company, for that matter -- look at what was accomplished when this community converged, took action and fought back about the unfair/irresponsible Hazardous Waste notices posted on most of our property cards.  As a professor of communication (as well as a church pastor), I'll be the first to acknowledge the exponential power of the Internet.  I'll stand up and take on the powers-that-be ... if I'm right and am supported by others in my community.  At this point in my life, I refuse to be victimized!

All: Thanks for some wonderful advice and the community spirit exhibited here.  It gives me hope.

[JAM]

To the original poster: I have a house in Riverside from 1923.  My electric bill so far this winter has been about $250, although I haven't gotten the December bill yet.  I think part of the problem is the extreme cold, which is atypical for us.  We have cold snaps during every winter, but the weeks and weeks of lows in the 20's is not normal for us.  Typically, architects do not recommend double insullated windows in Florida because we don't get cold enough to justify the extra cost in the windows.  Also, new windows are not made to the same quality as the old ones, which have lasted 80-100 years in our historic neighborhoods.  My neighbor replaced all the windows in his duplex 7 years ago.  Most of them are broken now and won't open.  They all have double insullated glass, but each of the two aparment units have bills twice as high as mine.  My house has most of its original windows.  Here are some tips:  Our old houses have doors on every room for a reason:  heat.  They were designed to keep the doors shut and heat only the rooms in your in.  I keep two bedrooms upstairs always with their doors shut, since I don't use them.  Also, although modern design tends to like windows with no drapes or window coverings, drapes do a lot to insullate windows from the rest of the house.  Shut the drapes in your home and after a while stick your hand between the drapes and the window.  You'll feel the difference.

[jaxpaxpastor]

Thanks, JAM!

Good advice.  We do have faux wood blinds on every window and tend to keep them closed.  Hopefully, this cold "snap" will be a passing fancy and our JEA bill will soon return to its normal range of $200-$250/month.

~Bruce (the original poster)

[JAM]

The other poster was correct in that you'll need a Certificate of Appropriateness FIRST if you want to replace windows.  So make sure you get the COA before you pay a deposit on the new windows.  Storm windows are also a good option.  There are tips on line to building simple wood and plastic temporary "storm" windows for the inside.  Just make sure condensation doesn't build up between the two.  If you do outside storm windows, the too need a COA.  There are also a lot of articles in Old Home Journal on how to insullate old windows so that they perform virtually the same as a new window.  The RAP house has a file with some of these articles available for review in its library. The Old Home Journal articles will show you how and provide information on internet sources from which to buy the materials.  Most weatherstripping retrofits provide that you buy a vinal or plastic weatherstripping with a flange.  The installer will then plane a little off the sides of the window, router a groove for the flange, and then install the weatherstripping.  It essentially gives a seal like that of new windows.  Also, make sure there aren't gaps around your doors.  I have huge gap under my front door (on the repair list) and that front room is the coldest in the house.

[JAM]

Another source of information on window maintenance, including cost/benefit analyses to replacing old windows and winter weatherization can be found on the RAP website.  Go to www.riversideavondale.org/resources/exterior renovation.  There are multiple links with lots of info.

[ChriswUfGator]

It's clearly stated on the bill, so it's not like they're hiding that fact:

City of Jacksonville Franchise Fee: Franchise fees are charges made by governments to utilities for exclusive/non-exclusive rights to operate within municipal boundaries. Florida statute requires franchise fees to be charged to customers directly and not included in rates. The City of Jacksonville (COJ) Franchise Fee is a 3 percent fee on the electric, water, irrigation and sewer usage of JEA customers living in the city of Jacksonville, effective April 1, 2008. City ordinance directs JEA to collect the fee on behalf of the City, which receives all of the revenue produced by the Fee. On electric usage only: The COJ Franchise Fee is capped at $72,000 per year on electric service usage only. There is no fee cap on any other JEA service to which the fee is applied.

Don't you think that I pass the cost on to my customers when they have me bid a LEED (green) project i.l.o. a regular job?  You're damn right I do, it's called the 'running a business.'  JEA's business is selling electricity.  But you already knew that didn't you?  

Since both you and Stephen think that JEA is ripping everyone off, my question to you both is, "What is a fair price for electricity?"  

The intent of the franchise fee was not to have JEA tack it right onto customer bills, it was to have JEA which was profitable help repay the taxpayer investment in its system. JEA rather unscrupulously continued pocketing the money and passed the fee along to its customer base, which incidentally were the same taxpayers who had funded the system building and operating costs to begin with. It's really grossly unfair when you think about it.

What is it with you conservatives, why do you find the thought of nickel and diming a million people to create a pool of ill-gotten wealth so attractive? Government services were not supposed to be a business. Not everything has to make money.

[jaxpaxpastor]

Our house already has a section -- not visible from the street -- with vinyl windows in the back.  While we wouldn't do anything to detract from or compromise the charm and grace of this historic neighborhood, if we do decide to replace existing windows with vinyl ones, they would be on the sides and not visible from the street.  Walking around our neighborhood, we see homeowners who have replaced the wood on their frame homes with vinyl ... installed the ugliest metal awnings you've ever seen ... created the most unsightly additions in the front or the sides ... and/or have a mish-mash of different window types put in throughout their homes.

[ChriswUfGator]

To the original poster: I have a house in Riverside from 1923.  My electric bill so far this winter has been about $250, although I haven't gotten the December bill yet.  I think part of the problem is the extreme cold, which is atypical for us.  We have cold snaps during every winter, but the weeks and weeks of lows in the 20's is not normal for us.  Typically, architects do not recommend double insullated windows in Florida because we don't get cold enough to justify the extra cost in the windows.  Also, new windows are not made to the same quality as the old ones, which have lasted 80-100 years in our historic neighborhoods.  My neighbor replaced all the windows in his duplex 7 years ago.  Most of them are broken now and won't open.  They all have double insullated glass, but each of the two aparment units have bills twice as high as mine.  My house has most of its original windows.  Here are some tips:  Our old houses have doors on every room for a reason:  heat.  They were designed to keep the doors shut and heat only the rooms in your in.  I keep two bedrooms upstairs always with their doors shut, since I don't use them.  Also, although modern design tends to like windows with no drapes or window coverings, drapes do a lot to insullate windows from the rest of the house.  Shut the drapes in your home and after a while stick your hand between the drapes and the window.  You'll feel the difference.

+1 on the original windows not being as bad as they're made out to be.

Double pane glass has a shelf life, the rubber seals dry out, the gas leaks out, and after 10-15 years you have a foggy looking window that is no more efficient than the original window that lasted 100 years, except it costs five times as much. If you compare a brand new energy efficient residential window then sure it's more efficient, but it doesn't stay that way long. The only brand that is the exception to the rule is Andersen, they just replaced a bunch of 15 year old double paned gas insulated windows at my dad's house for free (lifetime warranty). Aside from that one brand though, and only then because of their warranty, it's not really worth it.

[jaxpaxpastor]

Good point, Chris/Gator!

Can anyone recommend someone who can "seal" -- i.e., eliminate the draftiness and wind flow around -- our windows without jamming them or making them next-to-impossible to open and close?

[ChriswUfGator]

Barry Gordon was who I used to use for my rental properties, he was excellent at rebuilding the original windows. They were airtight, new cords and weights, worked like a charm. I'll see if I can find his number for you.

[Miss Fixit]

I know this thread has focused on electric bills, but an area where JEA will REALLY stick it to you is water and sewer.  Minimum monthly bills are outrageous - even if you use NO water (which is the case for me with a property I am renovating) they will charge both water and sewer based on the size of your line.  When I bought this house I didn't realize that it had a larger than normal line.  My water and sewer bill, with ZERO usage, was more than $100 per month.  I paid JEA to come out and switch me over to a smaller line, and now I would "only" pay about $35 a month for absolutely nothing (the minimum for the smaller supply line).  I say I WOULD only pay that amount because I decided to shut the water off completely for the time being.

Prior to this experience, I was not a member of the "I hate JEA club."  Guess I'm still not a hater, 'cause that will get me nowhere.  Instead, I have decided to limit my monthly contributions to JEA.  We burn (free) wood in our fireplace and keep our thermostat on 60 in the winter, day and night (except when we have non-family visitors), turn off the water heater when we're not around, unplug the computers and tvs, etc.  I don't turn the a/c down below 80 in the summertime and we conserve as much water as we can.  I'm still ticked off about those ridiculous water bills, but during the past 9 months of frugality I've saved a lot more than that cost.  Unfortunately, the end result of folks conserving on water and electric is more rate increases - JEA has to make up for lower usage with higher fees.

[Dog Walker]

A couple years ago I discovered a rather large energy saver.  Your hot water heater can contribute 30% to your electric bill.

Insulate your water heater

Find the circuit breaker that supplies power to the heater.  Immediately following your last shower or usage in the morning... throw the breaker and turn it off.  The insulation will keep the water hot all day for washing hands etc.  Prior to turning in for the evening... throw the breaker and turn the heater on for hot water for morning showers.

trust me... it will save some cash...

And in about one month you will be replacing your breaker.  They were not designed to be switches and will not last long when used that way.  Instead, install a timer on the heater and have it come on for thirty minutes before your peak hot water use.

Second, most of the old houses in Springfield and Riverside are "balloon framed" rather than platform framed like post WWII houses.  This means that the wall cavities are OPEN TO THE OUTSIDE AT THE BOTTOM AND IN THE ATTIC.  Cold air, especially when the wind is blowing under and open foundation can come up the walls and out of every electric outlet and around every baseboard.  There are no "fire stops", cross boards, in the wall cavities to limit how far up the cold air will come.

Solution?  Crawl under your house and stuff a fiberglass batt of insulation into the open end of each wall cavity.  Second, staple house wrap under the floor, taping it carefully around all pipes and ducts under the house.  Both will stop cold air infiltration.  Don't bother with fiberglass batts under the house, just stop the air infiltration.  Heat rises, not cold.

Over the hundred plus years your house has been in existence, the wood in the window sashes and frames has shrunk allowing air to get in.  Adding stick on weather stripping to the inside of the sashes is easy and cheap.

Third, close off the vents and close the doors of the rooms you don't use.

Fourth, if you have air return ducts both upstairs and downstairs, close off the downstairs grill in the winter time and the upstairs grill in the summer time.  This will return the heated air that goes up your staircase in the winter to the downstairs and the cold air that falls from upstairs in the summer.

Finally, JEA's energy audit people don't have a clue about our old houses.

Second finally, once you have been in your house for a year you can have JEA average your bill and charge you the same amount each month for the whole year.  It avoids that horrible surprises that we can get in the winter.

[tufsu1]

If it was acting like a business, then we taxpayers, who funded the damned thing would be entitled to a return of the billions of dollars that we put into it as the initial and operating capital. 

JEA provides a pretty significant return to the City coffers each year

significant to an individual, statistically nonexistent to a power company.  It amounts to a couple of hundred thousand bridge troll.  Or about the amount of one executive salary.

not hardly....JEA has a budget item called City Contribution...defined as such:

"City Contribution is the portion of JEA’s electric services budget that is collected by JEA for the City of Jacksonville to support general government services not related to JEA."

In 2009, that amounted to $97 million

Citation please.

that would be the most recent JEA Annual Report...also corroborated by looking at the City budget

[tufsu1]

Geez...do I have to do all the work

http://www.jea.com/about/budget/index.asp

http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/fc2aa9f8

oh yeah...and it is on Page 22

[stjr]

I live in an older, circa 1930's two story home, off grade.  It is poorly insulated except for all the windows having been replaced by a prior owner.

I found using a programmable thermostat helps a lot.  I program my downstairs for 66 during the day, 67 at breakfast and dinner, and 65 in the dark of night when everyone is asleep upstairs.  I keep upstairs at 67 at night and 66 during the day when we are active, dressed, and often elsewhere.  I also found covering the air vents around the foundation of my off grade house with sheets of styrofoam during the entire winter keeps the floors from getting drafty and cold and keeps a lot less air from the cold northwesterly winds from pushing through the building not to mention helping to keep any under-house exposed water pipes from freezing.  Also, put insulating pads behind all your light switch and receptacle plates.  You would be amazed how much air drafting through your walls comes out of these spots.  Lastly, make sure you foam all the pipe openings under your sinks.  And, keep your garage doors closed as much as possible.

With the coldest December in 130 years of weather records in Jax, my bill was a record, but apparently a lot lower than many posted here at $345 or so.

I have been told by HVAC people if I insulate my attic with Icynene (spray foam) and seal my foundation using a dehumidifier to keep it dry, I will be in even better shape.