FDOT Proposing $118 Million For Amtrak/FEC Project

[Metro Jacksonville]

FDOT Proposing $118 Million For Amtrak/FEC Project



Despite being rejected in the latest round of federal funding for high speed rail projects, FDOT has proposed $118 million in state money to make passenger rail between Jacksonville and Miami a reality.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-dec-fdot-proposing-118-million-for-amtrakfec-project

[dougskiles]

Would this also pave the way for a light rail commuter line on the FEC tracks between Jax and St. Augustine?  One that would have stops in San Marco, Emerson, Baymeadows, Avenues, Palencia, St. Augustine Airport...

[Noone]

I had the pleasure of meeting Kim Delaney at the St. Johns River Summit in Sept. 2010 which was prior to the Jacksonville city council introducing 2010-856 the transient vendor ban. Also spoke with her about Jacksonville and if we can have pocket parks then we can have pocket piers. Told her we don't have one and I've been trying for two years for a sponsor to take back to FIND Florida Inland Navigation District.

She was a speaker on the topic of Locally Resourceful Tourism for a Susutainable River Economy.
Her presentation fired me up.

I do not pretend to be a big rail guy. I need to ride the skyway again. Maybe a streetcar would be better. But her focus was on TOURISM.

She showed the old historic buildings along some of the train stop routes. After her presentation she mentioned that if the old Prime Osborn was returned back to a destination stop for Amtrack then it could be a hub for activity.

What excited me was that prior to her vist and speaking at the summit which was at the Prime Osborn Convention center  was that we were going to take a trip under the TU and McCoys Creek. The waterway is right next to the train tracks.

Kim mentioned that if groups for example wanted to travel and bring bikes, motorcycles, Amtrack can then add another car that would then carry everyones bike. I like that. 

Visit Jacksonville
Visit our Pier
Visit McCoys Creek via the Waterway
Use the River
Use Rail.
Its an election cycle for city council and Mayor. What are their positions on this?   

[dougskiles]

Noone, I love the pocket pier idea.  We have 3 perfect places for that in San Marco:

Riverfront Park, Greenscape Celebration Park and Jim Rink Park.  All three could have a kayak launch added.



Or see 12, 13 and 14 in this recent MJ article:

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-sep-the-14-parks-of-san-marco

I don't know about the other candidates, but Audrey Moran will be outlining her policies more specifically at a press conference on January 10th, 2 pm at Gateway Town Center.

[dougskiles]

Oops - I just realized how far off my last reply was from the original topic.  I should have posted that one in the 'Pier' thread.

My earlier question still stands...

Would this also pave the way for a light rail commuter line on the FEC tracks between Jax and St. Augustine?  One that would have stops in San Marco, Emerson, Baymeadows, Avenues, Palencia, St. Augustine Airport...

[Ocklawaha]

No Doug, it would pave the way for Commuter Rail, to St. Augustine with a stop at Atlantic in San Marco. Amtrak might also stop at Atlantic after the FEC route is up and running, provided South Jacksonville (the railroad name for the community) would put some pressure on the right places.

Light Rail is an outgrowth of Streetcars, and cannot operate on regular railroad's due to collision-safety rules and concerns. It could be done, but only on a piece of track that would permit a temporal or physical isolation of the LRT operation from the regular freight. Thus in San Diego, New Jersey and a few other places LRT DOES venture out on the freight railroads, but those freight railroads are usually simple switching lines, or branchlines that only see light or nocturnal traffic.

So saying that, our route from downtown up a reconstructed "s" line, to Springfield and north to Gateway Mall would be a great match for a LRT by day - Railroad by night operation, but you'd NEVER get that sort of deal on the FEC Mainline.


OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

Doug, it would pave the way by significantly reducing the capital costs associated with establishing commuter rail along the ISB corridor.  Many of the improvements associated with commuter rail would also be needed to accommodate Amtrak.  Assuming Amtrak returns intercity passenger rail to the FEC, federal and state dollars will fund a good amount of the improvements that would also be needed for commuter rail.  In addition, the long term plan is for the establishment of a corridor service along the Florida East Coast.  This is essentially a hybrid of commuter rail and intercity service with frequent service connecting suburbs and cities along the coast.  California's Capitol Corridor is a good example of what such a system could resemble.


Imagine walkable centers of transit oriented development taking place around stations in places like DT Jax or St. Augustine?


The frequency of Capitol Corridor Amtrak trains is better than many commuter rail systems.


Because of that, residents can live in a place like Orange Park, bike to the nearest station, put that bike on the train and use it when they arrive at their next destination.




Long term, a corridor service offers the region the possibility of having more than one station per city.

[dougskiles]

Very cool.  Forgive me for being a 'newbie' when it comes to railroad terminology.  What I really meant was commuter rail - not 'light' rail.  And when I say commuter rail, I mean a system that would allow people to use the system in the Jacksonville metro area - and not just a system that takes you to South Florida and back.

[JeffreyS]

If they build both the Jax to Miami Amtrak line and the Tampa to Orlando High Speed Rail line which one will average the higher rate of speed?  The two billion dollar toy or the it should have been done years ago strait shot up the coast.

[thelakelander]

Very cool.  Forgive me for being a 'newbie' when it comes to railroad terminology.  What I really meant was commuter rail - not 'light' rail.  And when I say commuter rail, I mean a system that would allow people to use the system in the Jacksonville metro area - and not just a system that takes you to South Florida and back.

^Yes, it will pave the way for that by sharing in the cost to upgrade infrastructure necessary to accommodate passenger rail operations along the FEC corridor.

[YellowBluffRoad]

I firmly believe that investing in improved rail service through Jacksonville is a fool's errand if the train station issue is not addressed.  and I had the pleasure of seeing the Jacksonville Terminal in use in the early 1970s when I was a kid. Those memories still leave a great positive impression today, decades later.

By comparison, I've had to visit the current Amtrak station a few times, and detest it. I've taken Amtrak from that station to Hialeah (Miami station) in the mid-80s, and enjoyed the actual train ride a great deal (still grin when I recall the conductor telling us we'd arrived in "Beautiful downtown Waldo, Florida"). However, the train station itself is not one I care to go back to, and have avoided for 2 decades now. Even back then the current Jacksonville station was ugly, unimaginitive, and placed in an area that seemed both blighted and remote.  I'd actually like to see a photo series of how it looks today compared to the Prime Osborn. Are there any recent photos of it on MJ that I just haven't found yet?

[JeffreyS]

Our Amshack is an embarrassment for sure.

[spuwho]

Siemens is currently touring Florida with a mockup of its Velaro HSR trainset as part of its effort to win the FDOT contract for HSR in Florida.

Thanks to Leo King (from Orange Park) who reported this in the Jan 2011 issues of Trains Magazine.

Details on the Siemens Velaro can be found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens_Velaro

[Ocklawaha]

Impressive isn't it?

I firmly believe that investing in improved rail service through Jacksonville is a fool's errand if the train station issue is not addressed.  and I had the pleasure of seeing the Jacksonville Terminal in use in the early 1970s when I was a kid. Those memories still leave a great positive impression today, decades later.

As I stated in the recent TV interview, if you were there when it was active, you still hear the voices. The shear scale of the place, not to mention materials that couldn't be duplicated today for less then a few BILLION, gives a completely different feel then even the largest of International Airports.

By comparison, I've had to visit the current Amtrak station a few times, and detest it. I've taken Amtrak from that station to Hialeah (Miami station) in the mid-80s, and enjoyed the actual train ride a great deal (still grin when I recall the conductor telling us we'd arrived in "Beautiful downtown Waldo, Florida"). However, the train station itself is not one I care to go back to, and have avoided for 2 decades now. Even back then the current Jacksonville station was ugly, unimaginitive, and placed in an area that seemed both blighted and remote.  I'd actually like to see a photo series of how it looks today compared to the Prime Osborn. Are there any recent photos of it on MJ that I just haven't found yet?

Obviously Amtraks Clifford Lane blunder has won them another fan and obdurate opinion of their architectural and business genius. I completely agree, and recall the infamous description by one of the primary railroad industry magazines back when the new station was opened. "Jacksonville's new station is off the main road, between two junk yards and underneath an overpass..."

The tragedy of Jacksonville is that Amtrak could move downtown without the old station being significantly disturbed. A simple portable modular building at the south end of the parking lot in front of the station, and reconstructed platforms and track that end at the Lee Street Viaduct would serve to bring the crowds back downtown, while we work on returning the grandeur as God intended.

OCKLAWAHA

[letters and numbers]

I hope it stays in downtown!