Remembering The Hotel Robert Meyer

[duvaldude08]

I also feel like Haydon Burns ERA was the great demise of our DT and it has not been the same since. Instead of preserving the old main library, we should implode it and making into a surface lot in his memory. LOL Its sad, but as someone else stated, we gotta move forward.

[Ocklawaha]

Okay Stephen, obviously the Landing would not be built if you had your way. Basically what you're saying funnel people though DT in various modes of transit/boats. What about retail/shopping etc? IMO funneling a whole buncha people into DT doesn't automatically equals having a successful DT. It's easy to play "Monday morning QB" when you're dealing with so many eras of change, esp. the dreadfully 70's era of DT's all across America. How many US cities have DT cruise terminals? I can't think of none, maybe Miami?

NORFOLK


LONG BEACH


VANCOUVER

Here you go:

SEATTLE
SAN DIEGO
VANCOUVER
MANHATTAN
NEW YORK CITY SHIP TERMINAL
BALTIMORE
NORFOLK
TAMPA
GALVESTON
MIAMI
MOBILE
GULFPORT
NEW ORLEANS
ANCORAGE
PRINCE RUPERT
SAN FRANCISCO
LONG BEACH
SAN PEDRO
AVALON
EUREKA
HALIFAX
PORTLAND (Atlantic)
KEY WEST
NORFOLK








ALL 3 PHOTOS, THE NEW RENOVATED FACTORY CRUISE TERMINAL PHILADELPHIA

Anyone that loves our old Ford Plant, while not exactly downtown, the 24 acre parcel includes the entire blocks out to Talleyrand, where downtown could be streetcar and Skyway close, and the sports district within walking distance... CHECK OUT PHILADELPHIAS NEW RECYCLED FACTORY CRUISE TERMINAL. The Philly terminal is also not exactly downtown, but close.

OCKLAWAHA

[ChriswUfGator]

Are any of those other downtowns with active ports as far from the ocean as is downtown Jacksonville?  And have good port locations closer to the ocean than their downtowns, like Jacksonville?  And have bridges restricting access (one as low as 141' - Hart)?

The Hart bridge opened in 1967, after COJ had intentionally destroyed most of our maritime industry downtown. If that industry hadn't already been mostly destroyed by Haydon Burns in the 1950s, our bridges (which came after) would have either included opening spans to accommodate ship traffic, or they would simply have been built with more vertical clearance.

[stjr]

If we want to talk of killing maritime options for downtown or "near-downtown" (such as Talleyrand/Stadium district), especially cruise ships, consider the short sightedness special interests passed through in building the too low Dames Point bridge and maybe the Hart Bridge.  When we replace the Matthews, it needs to be built to modern height standards.  Some day, when the Hart and Dames Point outlive their usefulness, the errors of our ways should be corrected with higher replacements.  It may take another 50 years to fix this, but that's exactly why we need more forethought and vision in making long term decisions for Jax, not knee jerk, low cost, quick fixes that are politically or special interest motivated.

As to where to go from here, if more transit is a partial cure for what ails downtown, lets get Amtrak back downtown, a first class mass transit connection from downtown to the Airport, mass transit connections using streetcars to surrounding urban neighborhoods, commuter rail to the suburbs, and a bus system that actually works.  Add some St. Johns River cruise boats to Sanford and more intracoastal cruises up and down the east coast of the U.S. Top it off with great pedestrian and bicycle connectivity and we should be on our way.  At some point, ferry's to Orange Park, Arlington, Mayport, Mandarin, Green Cove Springs, and Palatka could join the river taxis.

By the way, much of New York's docks have been removed and the frontage redeveloped with wide expanses of greenways, bike, jogging, and walking paths, and playgrounds and parks with a few historic sites (e.g. the Battery), museums, restaurants, kiosks, and marinas mixed in.  I still say the Shipyards and JEA sites should be ground zero for starting this up in Jax.  The Riverwalk is nice, but it is a narrow thread line compared to the NY waterfront being transformed from its past.

Battery Park Esplanade:


Manhattan Waterfront Greenway Map at:  http://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_things_to_do/facilities/af_bike_maps.html

http://www.nycgovparks.org/facilities/bikeways

Why Greenways?



A greenway is a linear open space, such as a path or trail, which links parks and communities around the City, providing public access to green spaces and the waterfront. Greenways expand recreational opportunities for walking, jogging, biking, and in-line skating.

In 1993, the City of New York had a vision to create 350 miles of landscaped bicycle and pedestrian paths that would crisscross the City's five boroughs and enrich the lives of all New Yorkers. Currently Parks has built over 100 miles of the proposed greenway system. Greenways answer the growing public demand for safe and pleasant ways to travel about the City. These trails allow one to get to work or school, shop or do errands, or to reach the waterfront, parks, beaches, and museums.

Benefits of Greenways

Cyclists, joggers, strollers, skaters, people in wheelchairs or who are mobility-impaired, dog walkers, bird watchers, kids and adults, families and friends, recreational users and commutersâ€"in short, everyone and anyoneâ€"gain from the presence and production of greenways. As levels of obesity and diabetes rise among our population, the need to stay fit and healthy has never been more urgent. In order to ensure that no one has to travel too far to use an athletic facility, we are constantly looking to add new properties where parkland previously did not exist and when that is not possible, to bring people to existing facilities.

For Health
Using greenways helps keep you healthy. By bicycle riding, walking, jogging, or skating on the greenways, you can get exercise in an enjoyable way and spend time outdoors!

For Transportation
Riding a bicycle is a form of exercise, recreation, and transportation. Try bicycle riding for your daily commute and see how favorably it compares to driving a car, riding the bus, or taking the subway. Bicycles often get you there in less time, and the scenery is better! It's good for you AND the environment.

For the Environment
The fewer cars we drive and the fewer car trips we make, the cleaner our air becomes. Bicycles and skates don't pollute! By choosing to bike, you will reduce automobile congestion and pollution, thus improving the quality of life in our city. The City's environmental health is also improved because trees are planted along the City's greenways.

For Safety
Designated bicycle paths are excellent places to learn how to ride! Riding on designated bicycle paths is safer than riding on unsigned streets and roads.

For Fun
Greenways are fun! Skate and enjoy time with friends or family, walk to the playground, bike with your children… Trees and plants along greenways make using these paths a relaxing escape from the asphalt jungle. Rediscover New York City's parks, rivers, harbors, and bays! You will see natural landscapes and amazing city views missed by most drivers.

The East River Waterfront Esplanade is receiving $150 million from the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation to create a spectacular waterfront esplanade, to complete the Manhattan greenway, and to reconnect the communities of Lower Manhattan to the East River Waterfront.

Historically, Lower Manhattan’s waterfront area has been the leading shipping capital in the nation. Yet, the waterfront has altered dramatically in Manhattan from industrial use to recreational use. Governor George E. Pataki explained that reclaiming the waterfront has been a key part of the rebuilding process.

The river’s edge from Battery Park to East River Park will morph from inaccessible shores to the lungs of the city. “Chain-link fences and concrete barriers will be replaced by cultural facilities, unique recreational spaces, and community amenities,” said LMDC President Stefan Pryor. Like Central Park, it will be a retreat where people who live, work, and visit Lower Manhattan can escape the glare and glitter of the city to enjoy physical recreation and a sense of community.



As multifaceted as the communities that it serves, the design jointly submitted by Richard Rogers Partnership and SHoP Architects and funded by the LMDC will reflect the local character of each area. The plantings for Pike Street will reflect the local character of each district the street passes through.

Turning garbage to gold, the current sanitation pier will be transformed into a publicly accessible open space on the water with seating for pedestrians. New claddings and enhanced lighting are just a few of the changes which will be found beneath the FDR and in Lower Manhattan’s vicinity.

http://www.renewnyc.com/Newsletters/SummerFall2005/

[Noone]

Bringing back maritime opportunities to not only Downtown Jacksonville but throughout the St. Johns River Waterways has never been more pivotal than right now. For tourism and Heads in Beds.(Robert Meyer)

Our city council just passed 2010-675 which will bring the USS Executive Ship to our Downtown with a last minute Finance amendment that could be a future taxpayer bailout provision contained within and this legislation was kept out of the Jacksonville Waterways Commission. Why?

Another scary and statewide jobs killer piece of legislation is 2010-856 which is a transient vendor ban with a 1 mile radious of another business operating a similar business or service from a permanent structure. This was shared with the St. Johns River Alliance at there Dec. 2010 Board meeting where the topic on the agenda was the seeking of a State designation for a Blueway Paddling trail throughout the 310 miles of our St. Johns River our American Heritage River except in Duval County.

Two years ago. Two years ago. I attended a meeting of FIND Florida Inland Navigation District. These Commissioners are appointed by the Governor and I simply asked if private money was raised for a Pocket Pier (Waterfront Public Access Street End) would the Commissioners of FIND match the other half and the answer was yes. You need a sponsor. A city councilmember. That was two years ago. Two years ago. The commissioners outside of Duval county were sharing numerous examples. Our Duval county representative is Mike Messiano. You can't blame Mike.

Out of 19 Jacksonville city council members to this day I still don't have one sponsor. That is why this city council and mayoral race is so important. There is no way in heck that I'd support anyone who isn't for saving and keeping separate the Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier. If you think for one second that we will be getting more Public Access your wrong. We'll be getting less.

Also as to 2010-856 the current exemption to the legislation is Downtown. Will the exemption be expanded to include the Waterways of the St. Johns River? If not then we need to immediately reconsider that American Heritage River Designation.

Keep score.

[dougskiles]

Noone, based solely on whether or not you think they will actively support the Promised Downtown Public Pier, how would you rank candidates running for mayor and the various council seats?

[I-10east]

From my own quote. It was just a tongue-in-cheek remark.

"You can't go back in time and extort the old deceased mayor, but you can always go forward and make the best of a situation".

[I-10east]

Nope Stephen, I was "successful" in the word I said, extort as in coercion, like to force someone involuntary against their will. Don't take tongue-in-cheek remarks so serious. Maybe you are too smart for your own good.

[I-10east]

Just for the sake of curiousity, how do you imagine it is possible to coerce, extort, blackmail or otherwise force the hand of a dead man?

I don't think that it's possible. I just figured if time travel was possible that's what yall would wanna do (extort Burns) to get the desired DT waterfront light industrial docks, marina, and cruise terminal; Being that yall are villifying him and all.

[I-10east]

Maybe "vilify" was too strong, how bout witch hunt JK. It's all good if yall disagree with his decisions. I have a Jags game to go to, chat witcha later.

[ChriswUfGator]

Maybe "vilify" was too strong, how bout witch hunt JK. It's all good if yall disagree with his decisions. I have a Jags game to go to, chat witcha later.

It's not a witch hunt.

Merely that wise people recognize that those who fail to learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat them.

The Haydon Burns / Robert Moses / Jack Diamond influences have succeeded in almost completely killing Jacksonville. And I don't mean Duval County, I mean the actual urban city. If your argument held any water, most of our downtown wouldn't be vacant lots and empty buildings, would it? Seems like history has already spoken on your interpretation doesn't it? Downtown JAX is like Raccoon City. These policies represent a total and complete failure. Parking lots and special events aren't how the money works in a sustainable local economy. Get rid of everything "ugly" and you just wind up with pretty empty buildings, which is what we have now. The "ugly" stuff is what actually employs people.

[I-10east]

I agree that the "ugly stuff" employs people (heavy industrial ports like Port of South Louisiana, Port of Houston, Port Newark-Elizabeth Marine Terminal, Jaxport etc.) not some rinky-dink obsolete urban port that was designed to ship turpentine in the 1950's.

What about all of that land (like I mentioned earlier) on the Southbank (near Duval County Schools) concerning a cruise terminal. Nevermind yall are gonna ignore me like you guys always do, besides I know the Southbank isn't "DT" enough.

The most significant event by far that "killed Jax"(if you wanna call it that) was the combo of a plague here in Jax, and yalls beloved trains (tracks) heading South for the greener pastures of Central Florida, and Miami. It's not even close.

[I-10east]

The city just moved the passenger rail station north (not south) in the wasteland surrounding the amtrak station that doesnt connect with anything, not even a decent overnight hotel.

I can't argue with you there. It's pretty seedy there on that part of US-1.

[dlemore]

I really don't understand why Amtrak couldn't make another small station(NOW) in Orange Park and have a JTA park and ride at the same location.  I know Orange park & the JTA is planning something for those on FEC & CSX trackage for commuter rail, to materialize sometime this century, but what can be done now so people won't have to go all the way to US-1 to catch a train. Those motels would come in handy in OP for overnight NAS travelers & for those who wish to catch a train at 7:25 in the morning.

[Charles Hunter]

The JTA is working on a park-and-ride lot on County Road 220 next to the CSX tracks.  A possible station location?  But it isn't near the I-295 motels.