Florida High Speed Rail - The Progressive Way

[tufsu1]

Virgin is part of a consortium that is bidding on Florid's HSR

[Ocklawaha]

Yup, Sir Richard Branson is a know-nothing according to Ock.

Wow, this know-nothing did this?

Branson has experience in trains. Virgin Trains is the fastest growing rail company in Britain. It’s grown from 14 million customers to more than 28 million customers in just the last six years.

http://blogs.forbes.com/kymmcnicholas/2010/11/16/richard-branson-from-rockets-to-high-speed-trains/?boxes=Homepagechannels

Hmmm, I wonder who that know-nothing is now?

http://video.forbes.com/fvn/business/richard-branson-the-virgin-group-invests-in-florida-high-speed-railways

Yup, just as you know nothing about rail and/or transportation, your Virgin fellow knows nothing about Florida's rail, historic patterns, and apparently anything else about passenger rail in the USA. Faye, you can't seriously know anything about the subject and come up with such hollow promises as, "it will pay for itself..." because it won't, that's a huge lie, and I suspose when it fails, it will be anybody's fault except the administration at hand.

You really didn't think I know about Virgin?  Sure Virgin runs trains in the EU, and Branson knows all about it, but if this guy thinks he is going to repeat his success with the current Florida plan then somebody is making a buck under the table. Either he has bought into the absolute lies about what this train will do - and thus been duped or Florida's good Ol' Boy politics have struck again. Could be the guy is getting some big bucks to make a completely useless plan look good to the transportation ignorant residents. Huge kickbacks anyone? Spell it BOONDOGGLE, and Branson could be complacent in the scheme, if this is the case then the poor guy is being worked better then a $3 dollar tourist at an alligator farm. I guess this takes us back to the bulk of your "experts" like Julia Roberts, Governor Milton and the mayor of Point Barrow Alaska, and the development authority of Saint Lucie Sound (all Florida experts I'm sure).

Bottom line Faye, if you LOVE JTA - YOUR GOING TO LOVE FLORIDA HSR...

For people that think, Amtrak's current ridership for the ENTIRE state is 2,712 people a day a number far removed from the 2.4 million annual riders these nuts claim will ride the magic High Speed Rail train that gets nowhere near where most of them live, or work... 50 years of turning our back on rail and all we have to do is dump a few billion into a glittering dream and POOF its fixed forever. Faye? Want to buy a bridge?

OCKLAWAHA

[yapp1850]

all this high speed  train is a tourist  train  mainly  relying on tourist orlando airport,occ,disney  they do not care obout  tampa or olando

[yapp1850]

which florida high speed rail team do you want to win the contract in why

[Ocklawaha]

which florida high speed rail team do you want to win the contract in why

NONE! I am hoping the new governor and his "Tea Party" friends kill this stupid project once and for all...

Then I would hope for someone to come along with a sensible replacement project that would establish a California like fast-frequent-train program on routes that are already in place.

The first step would be public investment in improving capacity - speed - signaling - crossing protection - stations throughout the state.

As demand built and more trains were added, crossings would be replaced by overpasses, track would be straightened, additional tracks added, speeds increased... This step would be repeated over and over, each time upping the ante.

In its final form the railroad would look just like Fayes high speed rail system, only it would have:

Passengers
Better located stations and facilities - city center to city center
Like California's HSR, the HSR track would have evolved to full but parallel (to current rail lines) separation between cities.
Amtrak COULD use the same track though the HSR trains would be faster...


OCKLAWAHA

[yapp1850]

i predit there will be 3 routes and 1 tourist route
1 tampa,kathleen rd,downtown orlando
2 tampa, oia
3 tampa,kathleen,disney,occ,oia
4 oia,occ,downtown orlando,disney,oia                                                                                                                                 Tokyo-Osaka by Shinkansen  2.25-4.15 japan is talking about  bringing the n700-i to florida

[Ocklawaha]

Even if this brain dead plan gets an okay, there will NEVER be more then ONE ROUTE between Tampa and Orlando. That includes any stops, airports etc... ONE ROUTE ONLY.

Orlando-Tampa (down I-4 from airport to parking garage via an amusement park...)
Orlando-Miami (this might die with the bankruptcies of the Orlando-Tampa operators and the State)
Miami-Tampa (supposedly someday)

OCKLAWAHA

[yapp1850]

if we did start a passenger rail on csx  tracks but tea party wills no like it they do no want   tax pay for  never ending operation cost every year  like    California  so if it does not make a profit it should not ever be built period.

[tufsu1]

More Federal funding on the way (maybe this is a bribe for Gov. Scott to keep it alive)....

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/the-buzz-florida-politics/content/more-federal-rail-funding-florida

With this money, the Feds are now paying for over 85% of the cost....wouldn't it be great if other transit projects could get that kind of share!

[brainstormer]

^ Thanks to the idiot Walker in WI!    Educated people in my home state are pissed because the uneducated were fed a bunch of BS during the election campaign and they believed it.  Walker and the GOP had them all convinced that they would be able to get the 810 million redirected for road building even though the Feds said over and over again that wouldn't happen.  Now FL gets to reap the benefits. 

[Ocklawaha]

With any luck Scott will be smarter then his brethern and just flat out KILL THE DAMN THING. If he doesn't Florida-High-Speed-Rail is going to be the death of HSR in America.

Also, why in hell would anyone think this thing could possibly make a profit? Exactly TWO high speed lines in the world make money beyond their considerable expense. Osaka-Tokyo and Paris-Lyon, Florida's boondoggle won't come close to either.  Nobody want's to ride Amtrak from Jacksonville to Miami now because it takes WAY TOO LONG. So Florida HSR is planning to go from Tampa to Miami VIA ORLANDO... WAY TOO LONG AGAIN!

"It will make a profit..." is a huge lie and the transportation professionals know it. Who is going to tell, when so many hands are in our cookie jar?

OCKLAWAHA

[wsansewjs]

With any luck Scott will be smarter then his brethern and just flat out KILL THE DAMN THING. If he doesn't Florida-High-Speed-Rail is going to be the death of HSR in America.

Also, why in hell would anyone think this thing could possibly make a profit? Exactly TWO high speed lines in the world make money beyond their considerable expense. Osaka-Tokyo and Paris-Lyon, Florida's boondoggle won't come close to either.  Nobody want's to ride Amtrak from Jacksonville to Miami now because it takes WAY TOO LONG. So Florida HSR is planning to go from Tampa to Miami VIA ORLANDO... WAY TOO LONG AGAIN!

"It will make a profit..." is a huge lie and the transportation professionals know it. Who is going to tell, when so many hands are in our cookie jar?

OCKLAWAHA

But but but Uncle Ock,

What if they actually did build beyond than one route? Then, would it be better than nothing?

-Josh

[Ocklawaha]

The second route is the ORLANDO-MIAMI line which due to geography is the Achilles heal of the whole project. Go straight south and the line is cheaper, but passes through NOTHING until it gets to West Palm Beach. Go south via the CSX and the line is somewhat longer through Winter Haven and Sebring, this is a great route for a very fast conventional train but high speed...not so much. That only leaves the coast, then one has to decide do we go from Orlando to DAYTONA? or TITUSVILLE? or COCOA? or MELBOURNE? The project currently plans on Cocoa which completely leaves the DAYTONA METRO and TITUSVILLE high and dry. Cocoa also causes a very ill planned 110 degree turn from a southwest-northeast route to a route going south. It is THAT turn that kills any speed advantage they imagine between Miami and Tampa. So if the curve kills the Miami-Tampa speed, and the out of the way Orlando Airport station kills the Orlando-TAMPA speed then...

"AUNTIE EM! AUNTIE EM! IT'S A TWISTER! IT'S A TWISTER!"

At that point, assuming it ever got to a third line, the only redeeming value would be to link Tampa with Miami via the route that is ALREADY IN PLACE! ...and a whole bunch shorter.  Then we could cut our losses and cut the Miami-Orlando route down to 5 or 6 daily trains each way at least between Cocoa and Miami, the Orlando-Cocoa segment because it goes to OIA and NOT ORLANDO, will die a natural death and become a sometimes used freight link to Port Canaveral. North of Cocoa the trains might continue on to Jacksonville via the Florida East Coast, but don't look for any more money to be blown on stupidly planned flying trains.

With all of this my railroad gut says, if we continue... We will get:

A poorly routed HSR line from OIA to downtown Tampa. It will fail in ridership, cause sprawl, and be subject to frequent threats of service cuts.

A freight line from OIA to COCOA and hopefully the next 4-6 miles over to the Port Canaveral facilities, otherwise it might be abandoned completely not long after being built.

A useful HSR line on the lower east coast from COCOA to MIAMI, hey at least we salvaged something!

MAYBE a decent HrSR line from TAMPA to MIAMI via Bartow - West Lake Wales.

I doubt we'll ever see anything going down the coast south of TAMPA to MIAMI via Alligator Alley. Jacksonville is simply screwed, as is everything else north and west of Orlando, hell Tallahassee hasn't even pushed Amtrak to restore service through OCALA and WALDO... and don't expect Scott to go begging for it.

Damn nephew Josh, I sound downright Apocryphal don't I?



OCKLAWAHA

[tufsu1]

the ORL-MIA route has not been determined....the 2 primary options are to follow the Beachline Expwy. east to I-95 and then south or to follow the Turnpike south and then follow I-95.

[thelakelander]

Would they be willing to lend money for some bus rapid transit?

Japan May Offer $210 Million Loan for Florida High-Speed Train to Help Bid


Japan may offer as much as $210 million in loans to help pay for a Florida high-speed railway as a Central Japan Railway Co.-led group competes against Asian and European companies to build the first U.S. bullet-train line.

State-owned Japan Bank for International Cooperation may lend as much as 60 percent of the Florida project’s overall funding shortfall as part of JR Central’s bid, Tadashi Maeda, head of corporate planning, said in an interview in Tokyo yesterday. The project has a funding gap of about $350 million, according to Florida Rail Enterprise, the state agency responsible for it.

Japan’s offer may help JR Central compete for the $2.7 billion Florida contract against possible bids from Alstom SA, Siemens AG, South Korea’s Hyundai Rotem Co. and a venture between General Electric Co. and China’s CSR Corp. Florida Rail is due to release bidding details for the line, linking Tampa and Orlando, as early as this month, said Chief Operating Officer Nazih Haddad.

“Government support is vital for getting this kind of big contract,” said Masayuki Kubota, who oversees the equivalent of $1.9 billion in assets in Tokyo at Daiwa SB Investments Ltd. “Any big project has its own risk, but I think JR Central will manage the risk properly.”

JBIC may consider taking an equity stake in the Florida project, said Maeda. It isn’t planning to ask the U.S. government to guarantee any loan, he said.

full article: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-09/japan-may-offer-210-million-loan-for-florida-high-speed-train.html