The Park View Pavilion Coming Soon

[finehoe]

My gut feeling tells me that State & Union are better for major retail than corridors like Bay and Forsyth.

Imagine the stores of SJTC stretching along those two streets from Market to Broad!

[Singejoufflue]

My gut feeling tells me that State & Union are better for major retail than corridors like Bay and Forsyth.

Imagine the stores of SJTC stretching along those two streets from Market to Broad!

Those two streets are too significant of thoroughfare's to be reduced to one long strip mall.  Not to mention the twin compounds of FBCJ and FSCJ might want to stay put.

Let's talk about a department store like Macy's in the old Library.  Converting the sad little building between Rosa Parks and CRM to a coffee shop.  There is a lot of Downtown to fill and address, and thoughtful, yet bold visions peppered throughout downtown will encourage prosperity more than a lone shopper's alley.

[thelakelander]

I hate to break the bad news but Macy's, Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, etc. won't be coming downtown or to State & Union anytime soon.  With the toxic bubble hovering over the area, DT should be happy to land a Family Dollar or McDonalds. Also, there's also no reason to reduce the lanes on those streets.  Most cities have streets just as busy and pedestrians still cross without getting hit.  While it is a hostile environment for the pedestrian, the real issue with State & Union is there is no reason to cross on foot.  With that said, while State & Union won't become a SJTC, it does have the potential to become a decent urban retail corridor.  Miami's Biscayne Blvd, between I-195 and I-395 is a good example of a previously suburban arterial being transformed into a walkable district.  Here are a few images:

These images were taken on Thanksgiving morning around 7:15am, a few miles north of DT Miami, so traffic was light at the time.  The five lane highway (US 1) is currently being streetscaped.  Most of the development in these images was constructed during the recent real estate boom.

















While the projects in these images are lot denser than Jacksonville would allow, they do illustrate how the atmosphere of a heavily traveled suburban highway can change when walkable development replaces auto centric development.  The same can happen with State & Union with a change in land use and zoning regulations.

[thelakelander]

You won't get a Macy's, but given the trade area's population and State & Union's high traffic count, retail like this could be possible.















The images above are a part of the Midtown Miami development, which is adjacent to the Biscayne Blvd corridor (photos in previous post) near I-195.  This was a former FEC railyard and brownfield.  Chain stores on busy Jacksonville streets with urban layouts like this aren't possible in Jax without applying for a PUD.

[sheclown]

I hate to break the bad news but Macy's, Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, etc. won't be coming downtown or to State & Union anytime soon.  With the toxic bubble hovering over the area, DT should be happy to land a Family Dollar or McDonalds

.

I was a bit alarmed by reading this on myspringfield.org

- It was very clear that the community would have, in essense, veto power over anything that gets put there. Gaffney said as much.

http://www.myspringfield.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=941

I certainly hope Gaffney didn't say anything of this sort.  I wasn't present, so I don't know.

It is important for everyone to have reasonable expectations.  Gaffney should not set unreasonable expectations in the minds of Springfield residents.  We aren't holding any great cards in this poker game. We need to be grateful for whatever shows interest believing that the future holds hope with baby steps today.

[Singejoufflue]

Admittedly, Macy's is my own personal dream, and I just want to dream a little longer...I would actually love Love LOVE a downtown Target.  It's one stop shopping minus fresh meats and veggies!

Most of the development you highlighted is new, mixed use, correct?  I think any new construction should be similar, and not these mega-towers currently standing idle. Clearly I'm no urban planner, but wouldn't it make sense to spread out some of the larger redevelopment (target, walgreens, dollar tree) among the entire core area?  Maybe 3-4 blocks between "major" retailers and let the gaps be filled in more slowly with smaller scale businesses?  And what about the existing business (Warren Motors still going strong!) along those streets and, again, the FBCJ and FSCJ compounds?  They take up a significant portion of those two streets...(and poorly, I might add).

As a side note...has anyone (MJ, COJ, DVI, etc) drafted a "plan" for DT? I mean, identifying the core commercial/high rise district, the mixed residential/commercial/retail district, the entertainment district, etc?

[fieldafm]

As a side note...has anyone (MJ, COJ, DVI, etc) drafted a "plan" for DT? I mean, identifying the core commercial/high rise district, the mixed residential/commercial/retail district, the entertainment district, etc?

There are about 5 major studies/plans currently floating around.  I'm quite convinced the leaders of our city don't read them or use them for any kind of referance.

[thelakelander]

The neighborhood may want a Whole Foods but if CVS or Walgreens comes with money to put up a store, get ready for a pharmacy.  

Most of the development you highlighted is new, mixed use, correct?  I think any new construction should be similar, and not these mega-towers currently standing idle. Clearly I'm no urban planner, but wouldn't it make sense to spread out some of the larger redevelopment (target, walgreens, dollar tree) among the entire core area?

Jax won't have to worry about the type of dense development that happens in Miami.  We have no market for that type of stuff.  However, as shown by the designs of the Park View Pavilion and gas station across the street, we can convert this area into a walkable commercial district through well planned pedestrian friendly building placement.  The easiest way to do it, is to modify the zoning regulations that prohibit it from happening.

Maybe 3-4 blocks between "major" retailers and let the gaps be filled in more slowly with smaller scale businesses?

My suggestion would be to modify zoning and land use to allow more creativity to take place, while eliminating the possibility of new auto centric development taking place along the corridor.  At that point, let the market take care of itself.

And what about the existing business (Warren Motors still going strong!) along those streets and, again, the FBCJ and FSCJ compounds?  They take up a significant portion of those two streets...(and poorly, I might add).

There's no reason they can't stay and become a part of an improved corridor.  For example, FSCJ has plans to expand that campus over the surface lots along Laura Street.  With proper coordination, perhaps new educational buildings can designed to be walkable with common student union type uses (bookstore, restaurants, copy center, etc.) designed as street level storefront spaces along State & Laura.

As a side note...has anyone (MJ, COJ, DVI, etc) drafted a "plan" for DT? I mean, identifying the core commercial/high rise district, the mixed residential/commercial/retail district, the entertainment district, etc?

MJ has not drafted a "plan" for DT. As a group, we believe in eliminating the toxic public policies that cloud downtown, eliminating auto centric building/site design from taking place and letting the free market take control.

[Timkin]

No offense....It looks like a wonderful plan, I love the renderings and  I certainly hope it does come to pass, however I will believe it when I see it.  In its current state, the Park View Inn is , at best, a death trap, so it is long past time for something to happen with it.  

[Coolyfett]

I still say pipe dream, That dumps has been there for years. Why now? I have my doubts, I see this idea somehow getting abandon.

[fsujax]

I would be happy with a McDonalds downtown! now a CVS or Walgreens would be icing on the cake!

[Kiva]

Once parking is available, and a few new stores/restaurants/pharmacy are built hopefully that should jump start new business in that whole section of downtown.

[acme54321]

I think if this and the gas station happen it will really help with people's perception of downtown.  Tons of people use that corridor to cut through from the west/northsides over to arlington and very actually go into downtown.  If your perception of downtown is that stretch in it's current state you probably wouldn't have any inclination to stop or explore DT more.

[KuroiKetsunoHana]

I hate to break the bad news but Macy's, Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, etc. won't be coming downtown or to State & Union anytime soon.

that's not necessarily bad news.  if this ever becomes the kind ov neighbourhood where that kind ov store can do well, i'll need to get the hell out.  that kind ov glorified consumerism is the worst thing that can happen to any neighbourhood.

[Springfielder]

So anything that's slightly upscale isn't what you would like to see? Then I suppose that Three Layers, Sweet Petes and Uptown Market are just as bad, in your eyes.