SJTC success has transformed First Coast retail landscape

[thelakelander]

By Roger Bull

The Christmas lights are up, the music's playing and the Christmas shoppers are out at St. Johns Town Center. But that's nothing new.

Since it opened five years ago, St. Johns Town Center and its two adjacent shopping areas have dominated Jacksonville's retail scene.

The stores and restaurants stretch out for more than a mile along Town Center Parkway, from Publix on the east to CVS on the west. In between, there's a Dollar Tree where everything's $1 and a Louis Vuitton where nothing is.

It's an improbable mix of Target and a Tiffany's that opens Friday, of drive-through burger chains and valet parking before a lobster dinner.

While its success has been unquestioned, changing the face of Jacksonville shopping, bringing new stores and creating jobs, Town Center has also taken a toll elsewhere. Several of its businesses have been drawn from other shopping centers, leaving vacant storefronts and reduced traffic after key tenants moved to the next big thing.

Ben Carter, the Atlanta developer who started the whole project, said that the Town Center's restaurants are doing $1,000 a square foot in annual revenue, placing them in the top 3 percent in the nation.

Consider that restaurant/clubs Whisky River, BlackFinn American Saloon and Suite are all located together in EpiCenter, a much bigger Landing-like complex in downtown Charlotte.

But when its developers there decided to open the three clubs in Jacksonville, they didn't go to the Landing, they didn't go downtown. They went to the Markets at Town Center.

Full article: http://jacksonville.com/business/2010-12-05/story/st-johns-town-centers-success-has-transformed-first-coast-retail-landscape

[simms3]

Surprisingly good comments about this on FTU.  Most people realize that it actually isn't urban and that it takes away from pre-existing areas/centers rather than reinforces them.  Sounds like people wanted garages, higher density, apartments/office above the retail, etc.

[Coolyfett]

Sucks that Regency is doing bad, but that didnt seem to be thinking big out there are a minute. Hopefully Avenues stays a float.

[ProjectMaximus]

Surprisingly good comments about this on FTU.  Most people realize that it actually isn't urban and that it takes away from pre-existing areas/centers rather than reinforces them.  Sounds like people wanted garages, higher density, apartments/office above the retail, etc.

Lakelander or anyone else: in your experience, how possible is it for a place like the town center to grow in density over time? Is it possible to reconfigure and renovate parcels of land to add parking structures, residential structures, etc in between existing buildings? Is it possible to add parking on top of existing buildings? Residential units on top of existing buildings?

SJTC is such a disappointment considering it could've been so much better, or even somewhere in downtown. But moving forward, I think it still holds some promise and potential.

[spuwho]

I read the article.

I like that it pulls from a farther retail area than planned. That is sales tax dollars coming in.

I don't like that it's success drains from other local resources like Regency and Avenues.

Geez, I even ran into someone from Ortega there who said they would rather drive to SJTC across the river than attempt to drive Blanding and OPM. That tells you just how bad OPM is getting.

As noted in the Pollo Tropical thread. SJTC success is coming with some new found costs, notably traffic. If they learn anything, its that they shouldn't repeat the OPM experience.

A shortcoming part of the article is the lack of notation with regards to future anchors.  If retailers and eateries are really pulling in $60-$100psf of revenue, I would think the anchors, especially ones with no prior Jacksonville exposure would be jumping over themselves for the 2-3 anchor spots left.

While a recirculator would be beneficial to the whole development to keeps cars in place until the experience (shopping, eating, etc.) is complete, it is unrealistic to think that a retailer will pay an extra $5psf in rent to subsidize such a service, nor would a shopper pay to use it as they could just climb in their car and move it to their next locale.

[duvaldude08]

I really dont feel like regency is doing bad. The regency area...yes. The mall is self is still alive. Actually, for me I pefer shopping at Regency. There is not one store the SJTC that I would shop at (for clothes) when I go out there, its only to eat. IMO to each its own.

[simms3]

^^^That's the first truly positive comment I have heard about the Regency Mall.  Me personally?  I feel like I might get shot everytime I go near Regency.  The mall is really not surviving, anyways.  It's nearly dead.  It has been on a long decline ever since Montgomery Ward left there in the 90s.

[thelakelander]

Surprisingly good comments about this on FTU.  Most people realize that it actually isn't urban and that it takes away from pre-existing areas/centers rather than reinforces them.  Sounds like people wanted garages, higher density, apartments/office above the retail, etc.

Lakelander or anyone else: in your experience, how possible is it for a place like the town center to grow in density over time? Is it possible to reconfigure and renovate parcels of land to add parking structures, residential structures, etc in between existing buildings? Is it possible to add parking on top of existing buildings? Residential units on top of existing buildings?

The easiest thing to do is to change the land use and zoning requirements in a manner that forces future construction in the area to be walkable and transit friendly.

[tufsu1]

^^^That's the first truly positive comment I have heard about the Regency Mall.  Me personally?  I feel like I might get shot everytime I go near Regency. 

That is perception more than reality.

[KenFSU]

I know the Town Center can be unpopular here, but it is easily the single best thing that has happened to Jacksonville in the last ten years. The SJTC has, in very short time, brought dozens upon dozens of mid to high-end retailers and restaurants to Jacksonville that wouldn't have even touched the market otherwise. I don't care if it's not urban, or if it will only have a 30 year life cycle, or if the traffic and parking isn't ideal. It's bringing in tax money, and it's bettering quality of life in the city. It would never have happened downtown, at least not for another 20 years.

Boo-hoo for the Avenues and Regency. It's not like they didn't have their turn to lure retailers in from other places during their runs at the top. Getting upset about stores being taken away from either center by the SJTC is about as reasonable as being sad that Blockbuster is being bankrupted by Red Box. What goes around comes around. Plus, aside from Comp USA, I can't think of a single other store that moved from elsewhere in town to the Town Center, and the COMP USA was dying where it was anyway. Same with the Regency.

No, it's not perfect, but I just don't get the point in bashing one of few big-time Jacksonville success stories since landing the Super Bowl.

[thelakelander]

Its a regional shopping center.  Nothing more, nothing less.  Its really no different than what International Plaza has done for West Shore (Tampa), Volusia Mall for Daytona and Governor's Square for Tallahassee.  However, I guess we make it more than it really is because its the first major shopping center to open in Jax since the Avenues (1990).

[duvaldude08]

^^^That's the first truly positive comment I have heard about the Regency Mall.  Me personally?  I feel like I might get shot everytime I go near Regency.  The mall is really not surviving, anyways.  It's nearly dead.  It has been on a long decline ever since Montgomery Ward left there in the 90s.

IDK its just me. Ive never had any fear of going to Regency. I was not born with a silver spoon in my mouth and I was raised in a very "urban" environement. Regency, or anywhere in Jacksonville does not put any fear in my heart. I stayed in Arlington for three years and visited regency constantly. They personally have the stores that I shop at. IMO the mall is surviving, it may not have as many major anchors as it used to, but I honestly dont think Regency Or the avenues for that matter is going anywhere anytime soon.

[fsujax]

I found it interesting that the article pointed out places such as Black Finn and Whiskey River opened in Downtown Charlotte. Made me a little sad. Only wishing DT could have landed some of those establishments. I dont really have anything against the SJTC other than the traffic mess at JTB and Gate.

Heck, at least they have it all decorated for Christmas, unlike Downtown. Again another sad looking DT Jax for Christmas, minus the Landing. Was in Tallahassee this weekend and their DT is all decorated!

[duvaldude08]

^^^ I know right. The LEAST we could have done is decorated DT for christmas. I guess that is too much to ask. LOL

[Captain Zissou]

Surprisingly good comments about this on FTU.  Most people realize that it actually isn't urban and that it takes away from pre-existing areas/centers rather than reinforces them.  Sounds like people wanted garages, higher density, apartments/office above the retail, etc.

In the site plan for Phase 3 (the phase with the proposed new anchors) it shows there will be a parking deck between Barnes & Noble and Dillard's.  They tried to do some residential with Esplenade, but they tucked it away in the back of the center where no one could get to it.  It failed.  

A trolley from Best Buy to Target would be the best Solution. Then add parking decks at Best Buy, Dillards, and Target, and then just build over most of that parking out there.  If they could then control the ingress and egress of people from Gate Parkway, SJTC might be able to actually build its way to legitimacy.  

I think if they progress in a more dense and sustainable way, the Town Center could actually break the 30 year curse and become a long standing, prosperous neighborhood in Jax.